[jyoti]

I thought I'd start a new thread from the "Do Indians deserve a better standard of living?" (or whatever the title was) for a slightly different topic.  

Living in India two years, it is clear to me that it is not foreigners who get ripped off. It is outsiders. Whether you are a Mallu in Delhi or an Angrezi in Bangalore, you are going to get ripped off until you surpass the learning curve and make it clear you know the right price.

Anecdote:

Recently, I met a family in Sonauli, Nepal. I was staying at a small town about 4 km from Sonauli and took the cycle rickshaw back and forth (the only transportation available). I had been met outside a restaurant by 3 cycle drivers who proceeded to barter with me--that is, make offers while I looked at them askance until they finally all reached a point where they said, "30 rupees! That's a good price! Really! Take it!"

Later, I was visiting with this family and wanted to know if I had paid a proper fare. They are relatively poor and generally bicycle around town. When I asked how much they paid for a cycle, the son said, "Well, normally 50 rupees. But that's expensive so we bike instead. How much did you pay?"

Here, I was the outsider. But, because I took public transportation (in general) much more often than the family I was visiting, I got a lower price. Many times in Bangalore, too, when watching it is clear that in the areas where I am most likely to get fleeced, the Indians around me are dealing with the same touts quoting the same prices. It helps to make it less frustrating that, sometimes, it's not about foreigner vs. Indian. It's just who knows the ropes and who doesn't.

[Shashank]

Jyoti, its not being about an outsider as well. Autos and taxis leave no chance to fleece local Delhiites as well. However yes, being local does help that you know the correct price and bargain accordingly.

[crvlvr]

So true. I always make it a point to ask a local what the prices are before beginning to negotiate.

[AlanD]

jyoti, on Aug 6 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

It's just who knows the ropes and who doesn't.

I'm inclined to agree with that. On many occasions Indian people have told me "You know, it's not only you foreigners who get overcharged, they also do it to us "

India is still a country where many prices are negotiated - at the bazaar, from hawkers and especially for personal transport. Other areas seem to be pretty closed to bargaining - I mean you wouldn't walk into a restaurant and bargain for a meal. But you can't successfully negotiate unless you know the going rate so I tend to ask people and in most cases I've found people are quite happy to tell me. With that knowledge it's then usually fairly easy to agree on a price.

However, we haven't been in India for four years, so I'm not expecting to pay the same price as I did four years ago to go from Paharganj to Connaught Place by auto rickshaw. The price of fuel has gone up, food prices have soared and I am reading that there has been about a 12% inflation rate in the current year so I'll have to check out what the current rate is.

I really don't have many memories of being overcharged in India, but those I do have are generally to do with taxi and auto rickshaw drivers.

[malkers]

Regularly in Bangalore our Indian friends could not believe that we were able to get better prices than them in the markets, I felt that some of this was due to the novelty of selling something to a white man.  When buying dodgy dvds from National Market I could literally name the price I was prepared to pay and they'd accept it but then I was usually buying 10 or 20 at a time.

I've always felt that if a price is agreed by 2 parties then it is a fair trade, nobody forced them to sell to me and nobody forced me to buy.

It did give some satisfaction though when an Indian friend would say "Even I can't get it for that price"

[jyoti]

malkers, on Aug 7 2008, 04:50 AM, said:

I've always felt that if a price is agreed by 2 parties then it is a fair trade, nobody forced them to sell to me and nobody forced me to buy.

Agreed. If I agreed, I can't say I was cheated. And I am quite willing to walk away when being bullied by autos to pay a higher price, which I do consider "cheating"...  

My Bangalore friends are simply impressed that I'm willing to go to Shivajinagar (the open market area of Bangalore). Most hate bargaining, which I enjoy, and assume the worst about what they'll have to pay.

It also helps when I mention to the shopkeeper that I live in Bangalore and that I always enjoy telling my friends about shops that give me good prices.

Edited by jyoti, 07 August 2008 - 05:25 PM.

[iwanttogoback]

[quote]It also helps when I mention to the shopkeeper that I live in Bangalore and that I always enjoy telling my friends about shops that give me good prices.[quote]

what excellent advice!

[Shashank]

When we talk about Taxi and Auto, or other other services which are essential or close to essential should be on fixed priced. They should not be classified as trade.

For other things bargaining is totally acceptable. And the Indian Government has a campaign that educates common man that they can bargain on the printed rate as well.

[AlanD]

Shashank, on Aug 8 2008, 04:48 AM, said:

When we talk about Taxi and Auto, or other other services which are essential or close to essential should be on fixed priced. They should not be classified as trade.

For other things bargaining is totally acceptable. And the Indian Government has a campaign that educates common man that they can bargain on the printed rate as well.

"Should be" are the important words here, but especially in Delhi I have trouble getting these guys to use their meter. Maybe it's because I'm a foreigner.

I imagine it's against the law not to but what can one do - wander off and find a cop and report them. I've got better things to do with my time when I'm in Delhi so I just offer what I've found to be the rate. Also a meter can be tampered with and if Delhi taxis and autos are like in other cities there are different rates according to the time of day. In another city (not in India) I had a taxi driver switch onto night rate during the day but we had already made the journey before so as the price was rocketing we figured out what was happening. We paid the day rate.

[kavindra]

Shashank, on Aug 8 2008, 04:48 AM, said:

When we talk about Taxi and Auto, or other other services which are essential or close to essential should be on fixed priced. They should not be classified as trade.

Not sure I completely agree with that. First of all, not clear about what is essential about them. Often there are buses and other competing means of transport. What about rickshaws and servants? So, what is essential and what is not ought to be considered more thoroughly, and  essential services is not a label that should be conferred lightly. And, if conferred, how do you support/compensate workers providing essential services? Do the get a privilege too in the bargain - or just the controls on prices they can charge for their services? It should also be understood that in a highly inflationary economy like India, price regulation is rather hard to impose. Chances are that the regulated prices go stale in a short time of being set. And, once the regulated prices are acceptable to the providers of service - the market determines the prices. And, that's when you have the instances of questionable prices being charged.

So, much as I'd like to see price clarity and credibility - the ideas to get there ought to be thought from not only from the point of view of those utilizing these services, but also from that of those providing them. Otherwise, it is not going to work, and the alternative is what you have today- for precisely these very reasons.

[Shashank]

The reason I say that Autos and Taxis are essential services and should be standardized, is because I believe that is the case in entire civilized world. When a person becomes an Auto or taxi driver, then he is very well aware what he is getting into.

I also believe it is not the question of the their requirements, but also their attitude. I Delhi there are two types of Auto guys, one are the regular guys we see, who will keep hanging out with their rickshaw waiting for a high paying customer rather than going by the meter, and the other guys are who simply keep moving around, no questions asked, no bargaining. You simply sit in the auto, they will start the meter, drop you where ever you want to go and then move on.  They do not hang out waiting for better paying customer and end up servicing more passengers, thus ending up earning the same or even more amount that fleecing guys.

[noflylist]

Well, if you force auto drivers to use meter, he will go to destination roundaboutways, making both of you happy  

One place I have found impossible to find honest autos is Pune! They never have conversion charts!