[Ria]

Hi!

I'm currently an unofficial PIO - my grandfather is Indian (dob. 13.11.30), although left India in 1955. I have a document from the commonwealth office dated 1960 confirming that they have a record of his baptism in Howrah, although a search of the British Library India Office Records suggest they have a more formal record of his birth which I could order a copy of. I also have a copy of his current British passport confirming his place of birth as Howrah. If he ever had an Indian passport, he has no idea where it is!

Is this sufficient information on which to obtain PIO, or am I going to have to dig a bit deeper? I know that he went to Oak Grove school and I could try and get in touch with them for a some sort of record of his attendance...

Hopefully someone here has had a similar problem and can give me some advice!!!

Thanks,

Ria

[cyberhippie]

We have someone who has been through a similar story, so he'll certainly be able to help. It's his birthday today though, so hang fire and he'll get back to you when he's sober  

[Ria]

cyberhippie, on Jul 8 2008, 07:03 PM, said:

We have someone who has been through a similar story, so he'll certainly be able to help. It's his birthday today though, so hang fire and he'll get back to you when he's sober  

Would this be the famous john.sw?!?! He seems to be a bit of a visa guru!!!

[priya]

Ria, on Jul 9 2008, 09:24 AM, said:

Would this be the (in)famous john.sw?!?! He seems to be a bit of a visa guru!!!

The one and only!!!! It's still early morning where he is, but he should be around later today.  

[john.sw]

Hi Ria!

To satisfy the Government of India that you are entitled to a PIO Card you must provide them with the following:

An Expired Indian passport in original

OR

Any 2 or more of the following documents:

• Photocopy of expired Indian passport
  
• Letter from British Home Office confirming Indian origin.
  
• Indian passport or its photocopies of parents or grand parents of the applicant.
  
• Birth certificate of the applicant and of the parents or grand parents of the applicant.
  
• Nationality certificates of the applicant and of the parents or grand parents.
  
• School or college leaving certificates of the applicant or parents of the applicant.

Your grandfather's British passport could also help, as it shows his place of birth.

In my case there was no Birth Certificate, so I used a Baptism Certificate instead.

Good luck!

John.

[Ria]

Thanks John! (and hope you had a good Birthday!)

This is the problem - I have not got any of the Indian Passports, only the British one. I am guessing you had an Indian one for your application?

Do you have any idea how I would go about obtaining a Nationality Certificate or a Letter from the Home Office? (Obviously, I have a rough idea, but it's more about trying to get hold of these things in a relatively speedy manner!)

Also, do all of the documents (Birth Certs, Marriage certs etc.) have to be originals or will certified copies be OK?

Sorry to be such a pain, I've been trying to get in touch with the HCI in London for months now and they are impossible to speak to!

Thank you!!!

Ria

Edited by Ria, 09 July 2008 - 08:26 PM.

[john.sw]

Ria, on Jul 9 2008, 03:47 PM, said:

This is the problem - I have not got any of the Indian Passports, only the British one. I am guessing you had an Indian one for your application?

No - I only had a British Passport to back up my application, but it shows my grandmother's place of birth as being India.

Quote

Do you have any idea how I would go about obtaining a Nationality Certificate or a Letter from the Home Office? (Obviously, I have a rough idea, but it's more about trying to get hold of these things in a relatively speedy manner!)

I got mine from the Deputy British High Commission in Chennai, but if your grandfather was originally an Indian Citizen before taking British Nationality, there will be records at the Home Office in London showing that this was the case.

Quote

Also, do all of the documents (Birth Certs, Marriage certs etc.) have to be originals or will certified copies be OK?

Certified copies are just as good as the originals.

If you know when your grandfather migrated to the UK this will help you.

You can find sources of official documents at http://www.movingher...n/migration.htm

I have never used this company, but it may be worth a try if you need official documents quickly:

http://www.yourmanin....cgi?category=1

Good luck, and let us know how it all goes!

[Ria]

Hmmm....

I sent this email out to the British High Commission in Kolkata this morning:

Quote

Dear Sirs,

I am trying to obtain the necessary documents with which to obtain my PIO card from High Commision of India in London, based on my Grandfather and his preceeding family having been resident there.

He has lived in the UK since 1955 and so does not have an Indian passport, only a British passport citing his place of birth as 'Howrah, India'. I also have a copy of his baptism certificate showing the same information.

Do you know how I can go about trying to obtain a Nationality certificate for him?

His full name is Sydney Henry Edward PINTO
Born 13/11/1930
Baptised 20/11/1930.

I understand he came to the UK in 1955, and can try and obtain more specific dates if need be.

Any help you can give me would be appreciated.

Kind regards,

Victoria

And about 5 minutes later I got a failure notice...apparently the address doesn't exist!

I then resent the same email to the BHC in Delhi, Mumbai and Chennai and got the following response from Delhi:

Quote

Dear Ms Wood

Thank you for your e-mail.

As enquired, I would like to inform you that the Indian government does not issue any nationality certificate.  The only documentary proof your grandfather might have had is the Indian passport on which he travelled to the UK.  For this you would need to contact the Indian High Commission in London to know on how best you can go about in getting proof of your grandfather's nationality.  The other alternative is to contact the Indian Passport office in Kotkata (see attach e-mail link for contact details) to check if they have any proof of his applying for a passport even though it would be very unlikely they may have kept records pertaining to that period.

I sorry for not being of much help but please feel free to contact us again if you require any other information.

So...am I asking for a) the wrong thing; b ) something that doesn't exist; or c) being given the run around?!?!

Edited by Ria, 10 July 2008 - 04:27 PM.

[john.sw]

It's not easy, is it!

Your grandfather may not have travelled here from India on an Indian Passport as he may have been granted a UK Passport in India.

Does he remember where he went to school, and do you think that you could get a certified copy of his School leaving Certificate?

The British Government will certainly have a record of him being granted a British Passport.  You may find it easier to pursue this through the British Home Office rather than trying to communicate with people 6,000 miles away in India.

If the British can find the record of your grandfather's UK passport being issued they will be able to issue you with a "Letter from British Home Office confirming Indian origin", which is exactly what you need to support your application.

I had a similar letter from the Deputy British High Commission in Chennai which came through very quickly and cost me £45.00.

[Ria]

Well...I just spoke to a lovely person at the UK Border Agency who told me that if I write to them then they should reply within 4-6 weeks either with a letter confirming origin or telling me they have no record... I'll keep you posted!!!

Thankfully I'm not back in India until Christmas so I have a while to sort it out and get a tourist visa if need be!

P.S. John - you are an absolute godsend. The HCI should put you on their payroll!!!

[Ria]

So I've just received this response...

This is proving nigh on impossible - apparently the Indian end can't help me, nor can the British. So much for making it 'easier'!!!! Any suggestions?

Quote

Dear Victoria,
                         Thank you for your email in which you requested confirmation that your grandfather was of Indian origin.  The Border and Immigration Agency are only able to comment on issues relating to British citizenship and so cannot confirm whether your grandfather was of Indian origin or not.

You may wish to note that we record the personal details of individuals who apply for registration or naturalisation as they are recorded on their application form.  This may have been supported by documentation which would have been returned to your grandfather on completion of the application.  Copies of documents are not automatically retained on file.  

You may wish to note that it was our policy in the early 1980’s until late 1989 to return Indian passports submitted with applications to the Indian Embassy in London.

You should therefore contact the Indian authorities for advice on confirming your grandfather's Indian origin. We are sorry that we cannot give you a definitive response

[john.sw]

Do you have any family in India - a cousin or an aunt, maybe?

They should be able to get a certified copy of your grandfather's birth certificate and a copy of his school leaving certificate.

Otherwise you could try http://www.yourmaninindia.com.  I have never used this company, so can't actually make a recommendation...

I wonder what would happen if you were to drag your grandfather along to the HCI for an interview.  Perhaps he could persuade the authorities of his bona fides?

[Ria]

My great grandmother came over to england as well with all of her children so if there is anyone still there, they are a bit of a distant relation!

I think I can get hold of a copy of bis birth cert from the India records at the British Library - they show it on their database. I have a copy of the baptism cert and his british passport. I'm almost tempted to send that lot off and see if it lands in the hands of a particularly nice official!

I've tried getting in touch with Oak Grove (his old school) by email, but no luck. I think, seeing as the other options are proving tricky I may phone/write to them. Interestingly, I even have a copy of a book written by my great uncle about growing up in India which is full of references and hundreds of photos - shame they won't accept that! My grandfather now lives in Spain (england too cold for him and my grandmother wouldn't cope with India!), otherwise I like the idea of producing him in the flesh to argue it out!!!!!!!!

[dakpatel]

Hi Ria

I too wanted a PIO card, but I was born in the UK, father in Kenya, only mum was born in India, but not record of birth, apart from school certs. Mum and dad went today with completed forms, some info and dad having Indian origin, as stated on his birth cert. (which they said wasnt enough) They wanted to concentrate on mum, as she was born in India.

They want her to get a Letter from British Home Office confirming Indian origin, but after yours and other comments above, I think I will find it hard to get.

Any updates

Regards

Dak

[john.sw]

dakpatel, on Aug 19 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

They want her to get a Letter from British Home Office confirming Indian origin, but after yours and other comments above, I think I will find it hard to get.

Hi Dak,

Welcome to The India Tree!

I got a letter from the Deputy British High Commission in Chennai, which was accepted by the Ministry of Home Affairs in Delhi as one proof of my Indian origin.

Good luck!

John

[gutlessyogi]

HI ,

I have been trying to get my PIO card for years. I have been told by the London HC that if I can get an affidavit from an Indian first class judicial magistrate, this will be accepted as evidence by the HC> My father's birth certificate was lost in partition and as he was in what is now Pakistan, cannot get copy certificates. His Indian passport was given to the UK or Indian authorities when he got UK nationality in 1966. But how do you get in front of a 1st class mag. I have been to Delhi , got relatives of good standing who understand these things but even they have been baffled.  
Any ideas? Anyone heard the thing about a first class mag before?

regards


g

[Joe Public]

John

I wonder if you can offer any ideas.

I am applying for OCI and need to prove my earlier Indian Nationality. I have the Indian passport no issued by the Indian High Commission and the issue date in 1980 BUT amazingly the guy at the High Commission London says that they cant look up even though they issued it in the first place.

My father has a letter from Home Office saying that the Indian passport was sent to Indian High Commission - not enough the man says.

SAYS need notarised affidavit but cant say what it should say - refers me to the website and that doesnt help. They are about £80 to get it notarised.

have no birth certificate

help...
jOE