[kullukid]

Just finished reading this & can highly recommend it.
Don't know if you've read this yet Bati, but you should, it is very clear & easy to understand. It is a collection of Jk's writings & talks that have been gathered together by the Editor Raymond Martin under various headings such as Fear,Desire,Happiness, Anger etc.
The editor as put the various fragments of talks by J.K. together from different sources so that it reads as though it is one continuous thing written by J.K. I definitely experienced some "revelatory moments" while reading/pondering on this, check it out if you can find a copy Bati. KK

[batistuta]

KK, I have ordered a copy of this book. I will get it Next week. I have read a few J.k. books and Would love to read a easy to understand book. Freedom from the Known was not that tough to read.

KK, Am I understanding his terminologies correctly? ' what is' means Present moment or another term for it and Choiceless awareness means being in a constant state of 'watching the thinker' (the term used by Eckhart). Sometimes I get confused if I am interpreting it correctly.

Cheers,

[kullukid]

Hi Bati, I suppose the simple answer would be YES! However to expand on this a bit:
IMHO when J.K. uses the term "What Is" i think he is referring to "What Is" TRUE which is SEEING when we use the approach of Negation, in other words if we Negate "What is not" from the subject that we are investigating we will be left with "What Is" Take Love as an example, if we use the positive approach we would say love is ..............& proceed to try & define love, but we would be defining it from a limited (disorderly) fragmentary point of view based on the structure & framework of our accumulated past, in other words "THE ME" Whereas if we use negation by saying is love jealousy? Is love envy? etc etc there will be seeing of "WHAT IS" I say  "SEEING" because there is no "You" or "Me" that sees there is just "SEEING" this is because through negation there is no building & accumulation of the "False self" through it's divisive conditioned false views,definitions & incomplete concepts etc based on our DEAD experiences of the past. The other reason that there is no "ME" who sees this is because what he is talking about is Unknowable (TRUE). Truth transcends?? "The Known" which is always incomplete & divisive (conditioned). Truth can never be possessed by the "Knower" the "ME". You cannot know Truth. Truth Is!

THOU ART THAT!


To quote J.K. on this subject:

So, through negation of what is not love,love is. I do not have to ask what love is. I do not have to run after it. If i run after it, it is not love, it is a reward. So i have negated, I have ended, in that inquiry, slowly, carefully, without distortion, without illusion, everything that is not- and the other is.

Me Again!
In order to SEE "What Is" there must be "Choiceless Awareness" which IMHO is watching without conscious interpretation, without condemnation & justification, without calling things good & bad. This Awareness must be Choiceless, because if we observe with a preconceived motive we shall be prejudiced in its favour; and our observation will be too optimistic or too pessimistic.
Choiceless Awareness is observation absolutely unprejudiced, scrupulously neutral. It is Awareness of the false as false which is also the Awareness of the true as true.

To quote A.D. Dopeshwarkar who IMHO was a leading authority on interpreting what J.K.had to say:

It is when alertness reaches a point of such intensity that, effortlessly & spontaneously, it discards all memories & aversions, all fears & hopes & is solely & supremely concerned with the entire content of the present moment, outer & inner, subjective & objective, without seperating the two, without a sense of duality between the Me & the Not Me, both being only two aspects of a single integral experience; -such a point of supreme alertness Krishnamurti calls "Awareness".
Awareness is of the movements of the conscious mind, but in itself is not a movement.

IMHO I think it is what Sri Nisargadatta refers to  as "Spontaneous Apperception"

I hope this makes some sense to you!    KK
TAT TVAM ASI

[batistuta]

Hi Kk, When I first read that post, I grasped the last part well, the first about ' what is' flew over My head. After rereading it again and again, I have slighly understood the first part about ' What is' . I have subscribed to this thread to read that post.  

Thanks for explaining the concepts in a lucid way and I will re-read J.k's books that I have, based on this explanation.

Cheers,

Edited by batistuta, 09 September 2007 - 05:43 PM.

[kullukid]

batistuta, on Sep 9 2007, 01:08 PM, said:

Hi Kk, When I first read that post, I grasped the last part well, the first about ' what is' flew over My head. After rereading it again and again, I have slighly understood the first part about ' What is' . I have subscribed to this thread to read that post.  

Thanks for explaining the concepts in a lucid way and I will re-read J.k's books that I have, based on this explanation.

Cheers,

Hi Bati, I hope i didn't confuse you,I was attempting to make it easy to understand. I'll PM you with further explanation/confusion??? in the next few days. KK

[batistuta]

kullukid, on Sep 11 2007, 03:50 PM, said:

Hi Bati, I hope i didn't confuse you,I was attempting to make it easy to understand. I'll PM you with further explanation/confusion??? in the next few days. KK

Hi KK, I did  not know the concept  behind  'what is', so Your lucid explanation, far from confusing me, has helped understand the topic better.

I look forward to the pm with further explanations, ofcourse.

[kullukid]

Ah, That's the point, there is no conceptualising when you are SEEING "WHAT IS" J.K. claimed that concepts were the creator of our current state of Materialism with its wars, hatred,greed, lack of compassion etc. Only through Perception by Negation of "What Is Not" is the SEEING of "What Is". This is what he calls the Psychological Revolution More later   KK
Just a quick thought:
NETI NETI not this not this (What Is Not) the snake ????????? I AM THAT (What Is) the rope???????????
The snake is not the rope!!!  

I was just on another site & found this J.K. quote by your goodself:
On Love

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My favourite quote.
J.krishnamurthi on love
So when you ask what love is, you may be too frightened to see the answer. It may mean complete upheaval; it may break up the family; you may discover that you do not love your wife or husband or children - do you? - you may have to shatter the house you have built, you may never go back to the temple

But if you still want to find out, you will see that fear is not love, dependence is not love, jealousy is not love, possessiveness and domination are not love, responsibility and duty are not love, self-pity is not love, the agony of not being loved is not love, love is not the opposite of hate any more than humility is the opposite of vanity. So if you can eliminate all these, not by forcing them but by washing them away as the rain washes the dust of many days from a leaf, then perhaps you will come upon this strange flower which man always hungers after.

[batistuta]

KK, Somehow  that quote From J.k. rang a bell in My Mind as it was so true. yes, concepts, conceptions and beliefs have left the world for what it is today.

That rope example was a favorite of Nisargadatta Maharaj.
.

[kullukid]

Bati, here's some interesting links to someone who was close to J.K.
http://www.terra.es/...va/FOURTHMV.HTM
http://www.terra.es/...jcarlos12silva/
http://www.terra.es/...jcarlos12silva/