[dude1212]

So tell me please, if I am a Briton born to Pakistani parents (who are British citizens and British passport holders) are there any special hoops I have to jump through to get a visa?  Do I need to fill out the extra form for Pakistani and Bangladeshi citizens that needs 5 photos and a bunch of extra crap detailing my exact itinerary and who I will be staying with and which chailwallah I will be getting my chai from?  Is it worth mentioning I have been to India before and got a visa (in my old passport) no problems?I have a feeling this is going to be a long and arduous process.  Maybe I should stick on an Indian cricket T-shirt and lie on my form, telling the authorities that my folks were born in India - but what if they want to see proof?!  Is there a form I can fill out declaring I have no jihadist tendencies?

a confused dude1212

Edited by dude1212, 11 August 2007 - 08:27 AM.

[noflylist]

Do not be so paranoid, how will you enjoy India with this kind of apprehension. It is the subcontinent we all have to adjust to and not the other way around!

I think your British citizenship would hold in good stead. It might be a good idea to take your old passport with you. Falsifying on a Visa document is not a good idea.

[dude1212]

Once I get the visa I will not be so paranoid!  I don't think lying is a good idea either.  Besides, I managed to find the email address to the HCI London after posting this message and have sent them an email asking for their opinion.  I will fill you in when/if I get a response.

[noflylist]

Please let us know what happens.

For what it is worth, people of Pakistan origin in Texas never had problems with getting Indian Visa (from personal experience with friend and associates), it may have changed in London with present political atmosphere though!

[dude1212]

That's good to hear.  I've also contacted indiavisaheadoffice.co.uk to ask their opinion on this - I might, very reluctantly, get them to sort this all out for me if they respond positively.

[dzibead]

A friend of mine who is a Pakistani-born naturalized U.S. citizen got an Indian visa OK a few years ago ... but I didn't quiz him about what hoops he had to jump through.  But the bottom line is, he got it.

[cyberhippie]

People of Pakastani origin do indeed have to jump through hoops to get a visa!

Definition: British Passport holders of Pakistani origin means that either the applicant has himself held a Pakistani passport earlier/holds a Pakistani passport or either of his parents have held Pakistani nationality at any time.

Procedure:

(i) All such applicants will have to furnish proof of current status in the UK. Documents could include letter from employer, pension papers/child benefit, etc;

(ii) In case of dual nationality, visa has to be issued on the Pakistani passport;

(a) Visa processing will take up to five working days; and

( Attempt to conceal information or misrepresent facts will result in denial of visa service.

[dude1212]

Guys, I don't doubt it's possible for Pakistanis to get Indian visas (I have done so previously, years ago) my question was more about what process you'd have to go through - I was told that there had been changes in 2001/2 that affected British Pakistanis.  I presumed this involved having to fill out five forms and provide five photos (as Pakistani nationals have to).

Cyberhippie thanks for the info - I googled it and found the relevant HCI London page. These appear to be the new rules because I certainly didn't have to do this last time I applied.

cyberhippie, on Aug 11 2007, 06:32 AM, said:

Definition: British Passport holders of Pakistani origin means that either the applicant has himself held a Pakistani passport earlier/holds a Pakistani passport or either of his parents have held Pakistani nationality at any time.

The definition seems a little odd because it seems to suggest that if I was born in this country to British Pakistanis (who were born in this country and have never held Pakistani citizenship) and applied for an Indian visa I'd not be considered a 'British Passport holder of Pakistani origin' but simply a 'British passport holder'.  How strange.

I wonder what the HCI will email me in response...

[dude1212]

Strange - no replies from either.  Does anybody have any other email addresses for the HCI London that I can try?  I'm planning to go to the consulate on Wednesday 5th September.  Need to know if they want me to bring additional paperwork or ID (other than that listed above).

[iwanttogoback]

dude

if you are getting no reply via email i'd try the phone, even if it means having to go through one of those awful computerised systems and listen to foul music. better that than not getting a reply to your email and turning up without all the paper.

[Sudheer Poppa]

I have never received an email response from any consulate/embassy/high commission I have ever written to.. ofcourse one of them do send me spam... but no reply yet!!

[Hyderabadi]

Sudheer Poppa, on Aug 30 2007, 06:47 AM, said:

I have never received an email response from any consulate/embassy/high commission I have ever written to.. ofcourse one of them do send me spam... but no reply yet!!

Hope not the mail order bride variety!    

[noflylist]

I have also never received any email responce from any govt agency US or India. I guess beaurocracy is the same everywhere.

[dude1212]

I've contacted the Pakistani, US and New Zealand embassies with pretty menial requests before and had responses within a couple of weeks, usually within a few days.  I hate talking on the phone but looks like needs must...

[dude1212]

OK so I phoned the 0207 number on the visa form and it directs me to a 0906 number (also on the form).  

Before I spend £1 per minute (or whatever extortionate cost it happens to be) can someone tell me if this number is answered by real people or is just recorded information?

[dude1212]

A summary of my experience (also posted on TT)

As some of you may or may not know I am a British Pakistani (just to clarify - I was born and brought up in Britain to Pakistani parents, I'm not a Pakistani immigrant to Britain) and a lover of India. In 2001 I spent three months (including a sojourn in Nepal) travelling aimlessly across the north of India.  I fell in love with the country once I had escaped Delhi and have been patiently waiting to go back ever since. A couple of years ago I almost made it back only to have my hopes dashed at the last minute due to an unexpected problem.  However, for the past few months I have been gathering information ready for what I expected to be my long awaited return.  But something completely unforeseen happened today.  

A couple of weeks ago I discovered a page on the High Commission of India website just for those people happen to be British Pakistanis.  I need to 'furnish proof of current status in the UK' it says. I sent an email to the HCI and asked what the devil this was about as I never had to do this last time.  Two weeks later - no freaking reply.  So I called them today and things seemingly became worse.

I initially spent about 20 minutes waiting for someone to answer the phone in the visa department.  Just as I start to grow impatient a female Indian voice answers.  I explain that I need a visa for my trip to India but that I am British Pakistani. After going through the rigmarole of explaining that I was born in Britain and was going for a holiday she tells me that I need to provide a letter from someone in India that I am going to visit.  I can't, I tell her, I don't know anyone - it's a holiday and besides, I was never asked for one last time I went. This is roughly how the conversation continued:

"A holiday?"
"Yes, a holiday. So, what do I do if I don't know anyone in India to provide me with a letter?" I say.
"Well if you can get a letter from your business that'll be OK," she says hesitantly, "but you should get a letter from someone in India."
"I don't know anyone in India but I can certainly get one from my employer. Is there any other information or paperwork I should bring?  I still have my old passport with the Indian visa from 2001, should I bring that?" I ask.
Seemingly confused she asks "You came to India before?"
"Yes, and I didn't need to do all this then."
"Yes, bring that too."
"Anything else?"
"Hold on, I'm just going to ask my colleague."
A few minutes later she comes back and says "No that is all we need but the visa will be only for one place.  So if you are going to Delhi you can only stay there."
"But I want to visit a few different places!" I exclaim like a five year old child.
"Where are you going?", she enquires.
"Kolkata, Sikkim, Bodhgaya, Varanasi and Delhi"
"Sikkim is a restricted area" she states abruptly.
"I know," I say. "I'm going to get a permit at Rangpo."
"Yes, you can get one there."
"Or maybe I can get one from you when I apply for my visa? Hmm?"
"Please wait one moment."

I'm on hold again for thirty seconds before she returns and tells me that she's going to transfer me to a colleague who can help and that I need to explain my again situation to him.  Cue another ten minutes of waiting for the phone to be answered before I get frustrated and hang up.

Let me say unequivocally that I absolutely accept that India has understandable reasons for the additional security it puts in place when it comes to Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and descendents of either Pakistanis or Bangladeshis.  I also accept that entry to India (or indeed any other country) is not a right but a privelege. But neither point makes it any easier to accept when you are the one on the receiving end.  I recall, with utter embarrassment, the anger I felt when I was talking with this woman and immmediately after I hung up.  I angrily told myself that I was being forced to go through this fuss for the simple reason that my parents were born in the wrong country and yet pretty much most of the non-Pakistani people I literally saw around me would likely be able to get a visa without much effort.  Enraged, I continued to protest internally with unrelenting arrogance at how unfair the situation was and how these other non-Pakistani people I see all around are not as deserving of an Indian visa as I am.  I typed a much longer, rage-filled, version of this post before eventually returning to my senses.

So what to do?  I've not been refused a visa but it seems they are trying to make it as difficult as possible for me to get one. If I can't get a sensible answer out of the HCI on Monday, I will, at considerable time and expense, go to the HCI in London on Wednesday and try my luck without a letter from an Indian in India but with a letter from my employer, my old passport and the paperwork that is usually necessary when applying for a visa.  If the application fails I'll be mightily vexed but I'll live.  What else can I do?  Jump in front of a train and hope for rebirth as a non-Pakistani? Knowing my misfortune I'd be reborn as an Indian visa clerk at the HCI - that truly is suffering. Although, I considered lying on the form - claiming my parents were born in India - but I am getting bad vibes about that idea. If anyone has any ideas of what to do; whether I need a letter from an Indian in India (as is the requirement for citizens of Pakistan and Bangladesh but not for British born Pakistanis) or if I just need a letter from my employer as it says on the website; or has any other helpful (or indeed unhelpful) advice or mocking comments, I'm listening.

I forget the point of this post. I think maybe I wanted to vent my anger.  I think I also wanted to tell all of you that, compared to me, none of you are deserving of an Indian visa.  However, I simply end by requesting that you appreciate your Indian visas, treat them with the love and affection they deserve.

[cyberhippie]

I suggest starting all over again, go down there if you can, in person and like it or not there's probably a bit of groveling to be done (hey I do it myself if I had to, so I've no trouble recommending this)

Be nice, understand their point of view and generally be subservient to their petty bit of power.
It sounds like the person you had on the phone was uninformed or perhaps just being obstructive, However they've published guidelines they have to stick to, so the idea of a visa only for Delhi would seem highly unlikely.
On what grounds, security, this is the nations capital for goodness sake

Perhaps one of your Indian buddies on the forums could provide you with a letter of invitation if it comes to that!!

I wish you luck and understand the frustration you vented above!

Just one thing though, I'm sure I DESERVE a visa more than you, it's been 16 months  

[dude1212]

cyberhippie about the visa for only one place - I believe the practice is the norm for Pakistani citizens visiting India.

I don't mind grovelling or indeed getting down on my hands and knees to beg.  But if all that fails, my backup plan is either a trip to Nepal or a trip to Sri Lanka to watch England play cricket.

I'd ask someone on the forums for a letter but I'm not really up for giving an almost absolute stranger my personal details.  I have bad experience with this on one occasion - a user I had shared some personal info later posted it online after I ridiculed several of her opinions over a period of some months.

[iwanttogoback]

i think that is the understanding that dude has - that he is a british citizen, but because his parents happened to be born in pakistan other rules now apply and he is not being viewed as simply a british citizen.

[dzibead]

The woman at the HC office just sounds befuddled.  This doesn't surprise me, since I think a lot of consular personnel don't get much training and really don't know what they're doing.   If they encounter anything that deviates even slightly from the routine stuff they're used to handling, they're stumped. I found that even at the Indian Consulate in San Francisco, which is supposed to be one of the "easier" consular locations.  

Well, in this regard, I suppose they aren't much different from bureaucrats in a lot of govt offices (including U.S. govt) - as anyone who's ever had to deal with U.S. immigration or the Social Security Administration or the Internal Revenue Service will tell you.  Ask ten people the same question and you'll get ten different answers - and possibly all ten of them will be wrong.