[HowieUK]

Hi Guys,

I posted on the other post but was advised and agree that starting a new thread would be best!

I arrive in Delhi in Aug/Sept but will be travelling down to the South (Karnataka, Kerala, TN) until the New Year before going back up North and into the mountains later that year.

I would like your advice on a bike that will do all that, but I may not do the full ride down and back up the country (possibly take it on the train for parts of the journey!)

It also needs to carry all my gear and be economical, comfortable, reliable ( and cheap to buy second hand!)

Will I get something that will give me all of that or would I have to compromise, and on what?

Thoughts are a 180 - 250cc at the moment! Do you know which models I should be thinking about?

Thanks - Howie

[cyberhippie]

No doubt out more experienced members will be along shortly on this but here's my two pence worth!!

The Bajaj Pulsar is a 180 electric start, and is pretty relaible with good handling and breaking.

There are other models which are I think 150cc like the CBR or the Unicorn I've never ridden any of these so I'll wait for the the experts on that one!!

My only doubt about these bikes for long distance is riding position and luggage, there may well be a panier system for these bike but I've never seen one, so carrying a lot of gear could be a problem I feel. Of course if your traveliing ultra light then is should be doable. The riding position on the Pulsar was a bit tiring foir long hauls I felt but I was riding the old model not the new DTSI model, so perhaps that's been fixed??

Other than that the Pulsar had plenty of oomph and would happily sit at 55-60 all day

The on the road price is around 69,000 Rupees second hand I real y would know but I'll check in on a few places and see if I can get an idea although I'm sure Yogesh Sarker or Vinayverma will know!!

Have you thought about an Enfield or has that already been ruled out??

[HowieUK]

cyberhippie, on May 10 2006, 10:17 AM, said:

No doubt out more experienced members will be along shortly on this but here's my two pence worth!!

The Bajaj Pulsar is a 180 electric start, and is pretty relaible with good handling and breaking.

There are other models which are I think 150cc like the CBR or the Unicorn I've never ridden any of these so I'll wait for the the experts on that one!!

My only doubt about these bikes for long distance is riding position and luggage, there may well be a panier system for these bike but I've never seen one, so carrying a lot of gear could be a problem I feel. Of course if your traveliing ultra light then is should be doable. The riding position on the Pulsar was a bit tiring foir long hauls I felt but I was riding the old model not the new DTSI model, so perhaps that's been fixed??

Other than that the Pulsar had plenty of oomph and would happily sit at 55-60 all day

The on the road price is around 69,000 Rupees second hand I real y would know but I'll check in on a few places and see if I can get an idea although I'm sure Yogesh Sarker or Vinayverma will know!!

Have you thought about an Enfield or has that already been ruled out??

Thanks for your input Cyber!

I have not ruled out an Enfield but don't know whether that's for nostalgic reasons or it's practical?(MPG, Reliability etc!)

I will be carrying Laptop, other electrical equipment and quite a bit of other stuff (Mossie net, sleep sack, clothes etc!) so think I will need panniers, so does that rule out the smaller bikes you mentioned?

Cheers, Howie

[cyberhippie]

Howie I won't stick my neck out say there aren't any panier systems for the smaller bikes I just haven't seen them that's all.
With gear your proposing you'll certainly need something!!

MPG is a big minus for the Enfield's, these more modern bikes do far better in this arena I also think the new bikes are more reliable!

[Yogesh Sarkar]

HowieUK, on May 10 2006, 03:18 PM, said:

Thanks for your input Cyber!

I have not ruled out an Enfield but don't know whether that's for nostalgic reasons or it's practical?(MPG, Reliability etc!)

I will be carrying Laptop, other electrical equipment and quite a bit of other stuff (Mossie net, sleep sack, clothes etc!) so think I will need panniers, so does that rule out the smaller bikes you mentioned?

Cheers, Howie

Howie the main thing that you have to check your self is probably the riding position of all the bikes that you could be considering.

As for the 180-223cc bikes, there aren’t any panniers available for them, however you can get saddle bag and tank bag from www.cramster.in. The saddle bag has 37liters of space and Mossie net and sleep sack can be tied to the rear seat. However if you feel the space is not enough for the things that you carry. Then don’t even think about getting these bikes and go for an Enfield.

As for hh karizma, well in that case you might as well take an Enfield std350, machismo, electra or thunderbird, since the mileage will be the same.

[HowieUK]

Thanks Yogesh,

Looks like its the 350 Enfield then because I am carrying all my stuff on it needed for 12 months initial visit, before returning to the UK to tie up loose ends before returning for good (Except for visa runs to Sri Lanka and/or Nepal!)

It's a bit ironic really as I just sold a 1961 British 350 bullet that has been in bits under my stairs for the last 15 years.  It was a re-build project that ground to a halt that many years ago!

I have toured some of South India 20 years ago on a 350 and that was great.

Next Question then is where is the best place to pick up a fairly good (Looked after, lowish mileage)
second-hand model, Delhi or South India (but not Goa!)?

Howie

[Indojinguy]

Pulsar 180 or Bullet are comfortable bikes.
But if you want to ride like Delhi college guys.... fast and bad... get a Yamaha RX100. Its 2 stroke but my favourite. You can get one for 15,000 rupees or less I think.

[vinayverma]

Okay which bike?
Its a tricky question
Well if you are carrying bit of load and not too concerned by the frequent oil leaks, heavy handling, low milage and heavy weight then Enfield would be the way forward.
Earlier we use to use custom made side carriers for Enfield to carry our luggage but they can make the bike unstable (if the weight is not distributed well) They also require that you unpack all your stuff and carry it with you every night. Now we use cramster bags, they are better than carriers and can be easily takenoff and carried with you at night.
since these cramster bags can be used on any bike so the luggage carrying capacity is same no matter what bike you use.
So now you can look at lighter bikes like Honda Unicorn, bajaj Pulsar, TVS, Karizma etc. They are not cruise bikes and you tend to sit bit upright while riding and this can be uncomfortable for some.
There are two models which are close to cruiser, they are Yamaha Enticer and Bajaj Avenger. Avenger uses the same engine as the pulsar DTSI so I assume that it would have the same zip as the pulsar but with a cruiser style sitting position.

where to buy, I think Delhi is the best place to buy.
For enfield karol bagh is a good place plus if you want I can spread the word to other biker who may know if any 2nd hand bike is available for sale.

[Yogesh Sarkar]

vinayverma, on May 10 2006, 09:34 PM, said:

Now we use cramster bags, they are better than carriers and can be easily takenoff and carried with you at night.
since these cramster bags can be used on any bike so the luggage carrying capacity is same no matter what bike you use.

Vinay even the cramsters made for enfields have larger capacity www.cramster.in

for enfields 45liters

for other bikes 37liters

[HowieUK]

Thanks for info Vinayverma!

I probably would choose a lighter, more efficent (fuel-wise) and less 'leaky' bike than the Enfield if I could carry 70litres of luggage on it!

I would appreciate you putting out the word for something available once we decide on the model that would suit best!

I will be there August/September and am not a poser so street cred is unimportant to me! (Concerning the Bike Spec!)

Howie



Wow! I didn't read the last reply as I was typing!

70 litres is too much then?

Edited by HowieUK, 11 May 2006 - 03:31 AM.

[vinayverma]

Yogesh Sarkar, on May 10 2006, 09:54 PM, said:

Vinay even the cramsters made for enfields have larger capacity www.cramster.in

for enfields 45liters

for other bikes 37liters

Oh thanks Yogesh, I have used only the enfield ones. I guess the enfield ones can be fitted onto the other bikes, maybe with some tinkering.
Moreover, if you are riding alone then the pillion seat can carry some lugguage with the use of Bungy cords/ropes.

[HowieUK]

Yes I can use the pillion seat for some luggage!

Maybe I will have to lighten the load by 10 - 15 litres?

Off out for dinner now

Speak soon

Howie

[crvlvr]

Also, you can check out user reviews of Indian motorcycles here http://www.mouthshut...ead.php?cid=102

Edited by crvlvr, 10 May 2006 - 11:00 PM.

[LoveMaX]

Hi howie
Now as you plan to spend about a long time in India while travelling by raod the thing that you should aim at is .. .Reliability.

Bullet is one bike you will love for its torque but otherwise you would not like to drag it around in case of anything going wrong. Even Towing a Bullet is a big ask. Plus MPG is not really a gud factor.

Now coming onto the 150-225 category... hmmm Well lets start with HH karizma - good bike - low on mileage - nice torque even if fully loaded - but only negative point - one single fall and you might be running around to find a fix for it.

Little low on that one is Pulsar 180 perfectly nice bike but I just didnt like the tank shape on that bike (p.s: my personal preference) but besides that.. its a good bike but requires a proper maintainence for a long trips. I think Yogesh is the best bet to talk on an P180.

But now lets talk something which can take it all .. Honda Unicorn . I have to say its a nice peice of engineering and takes on all terrain as seen and heard from its owners. Just that the bike tyres are not fatter but then it gets u to the best mileage in its class.  Doing a touring on Honda unicorn can be a perfect choice but its 150CC machine.

Now as you said howie u are travelling with lots of stuff then it can be tough call. Getting to spend some time in here in India and start with some basic things like getting the carry bags build according to your own stuff and trust me its the best thing to do.

Getting cheaper stuff.. as compared to all other countries India is one of the cheapest country to travel by bike but then you cant compromise on safety that is an essentialiaty for a biker. On a personal note carrying your own safety gear from UK can be the best thing that you can do - safety gear in India is not quite upto standard.

Rest we meet we talk we experience we enjoi and we remember it for life time..

CheerS
-M-

[HowieUK]

Thanks for the advice LoveMax,

I think the compromise I was talking about will have to be luggage!

A big re-think is required to cut my 'supposed' required possessions down quite a bit.

Therefore your suggestion of the Honda Unicorn will be looked at seriously for reliability reasons and also for economy in MPG! I have previously had an Enfield break down on me in the jungle in India in the middle of the night and I fell asleep exhausted at the side of the road where I was attacked by ants, but that's another story!

So I would be best off getting carry bags custom built to suit my luggage.

I assume by safety gear you mean Leathers, Gloves, Boots and Helmet?

Howie

[Hippie at Heart]

Howie if you feel luggage capacity is the main thing you want to consider, then go for Royal Enfield, no poser and actual work horse (if it doesn’t brake down sooner – you should not be expecting miracles from single-pushrod-over-cam design of 50s… right ?). if you must take then go for a bullet with new electrical firing system and you can save yrself a lot of bother about tuning the old CB contact pints every 500 Km of so.

I feel Unicorn is a best working compromise between various elements. Pulsar 180 is proven horse from Bajaj stable, but only if they can do something about those horrendously tapering seat that numbs your groin in no-no time and awfully narrow handlebars to give pseudo racing style posture.. that’s a sensible bike, plenty of dealer network and reasonably priced parts. If nothing else get the wider handlebar of P150 onto your P180. Keeping a friendly eye on the frayed chargers and battery drain is another issue on pulsers. Also I feel their gear shifter ‘clank’ a lot then needed; and worn out clutch plate syndrome happens pretty early too, am sure you know what’s to be done with the clutch bell.

Karizma is all rounder and almost a favorite for me for the reason that technically that bike had evolved almost to the peak; given my understanding to Indian biking industry and they are not likely to offer you any more goodies then they are in Karizma. But things are costly with her.

CBZ is another fav and I really like her shorter gearing and double jet fuel supply when needed (that translate - better hauling in hills) she fits the bill pretty good too. You wont loose much on mileage as well.

Whatever you decided to go with, there is a simple thumb rule for road touring in India, do whatever you can but as a sensible you can’t better the ‘55 KMPH’ in actual road conditions…. And except Karizma, Indian bikes cruise comfortably around 70 and cannot sustain any ripping for more then 30 mins before ‘metal fatigue’ sets in. The younger lot may have different opinion about how things are but for my old bones this works best and unhurried on nerves too.

[Yogesh Sarkar]

Hippie at Heart, on May 12 2006, 02:04 AM, said:

Pulsar 180 is proven horse from Bajaj stable, but only if they can do something about those horrendously tapering seat that numbs your groin in no-no time and awfully narrow handlebars to give pseudo racing style posture.. that’s a sensible bike, plenty of dealer network and reasonably priced parts. If nothing else get the wider handlebar of P150 onto your P180. Keeping a friendly eye on the frayed chargers and battery drain is another issue on pulsers. Also I feel their gear shifter ‘clank’ a lot then needed; and worn out clutch plate syndrome happens pretty early too, am sure you know what’s to be done with the clutch bell.

battery problem, well never happened to me or to any of my friends. but then again we do ride at speeds that charge the battery easily

regarding the groin problem, well havnt happen to me yet. max I hav ridden in a day is 23hours (Srinagar to Delhi)

clutch plates normally last for 20-30k depending on the riding style, but then again at Rs. 44 for a single clutch plate (180 needs 6 and 150 5) it isnt an issue. infect most of the parts are quite cheap. but the gear quality for 180 is an issue for newbies, with false neutrals.

Hippie at Heart, on May 12 2006, 02:04 AM, said:

Whatever you decided to go with, there is a simple thumb rule for road touring in India, do whatever you can but as a sensible you can’t better the ‘55 KMPH’ in actual road conditions…. And except Karizma, Indian bikes cruise comfortably around 70 and cannot sustain any ripping for more then 30 mins before ‘metal fatigue’ sets in. The younger lot may have different opinion about how things are but for my old bones this works best and unhurried on nerves too.

have to disagree with this completely, on my last trip we (my friend and i) rode from delhi to 12kms ahead of kalka non stop.  Speeds were hovering between 80-90kmph most of the time (he had 180 dtsi v1 and mine a 4 year old 180 classic).

Also in the previous trips I have done cruising at 100kmph for an hour or longer non stop without any problem.

Karizma can cruise at 110kmph all day without breaking a sweat, proven by Dr. Arn from Mumbai. He has successfully completed the iron butt challenge by riding his karizma for 1750kms in 24 hours.

Most of the Indian bikes are quite a workhorse and take abuse easily. Provided you service them and change oil at specified intervals.

[Hippie at Heart]

Yogesh, we are not trying to break new speed records, its something to do with age and riding style, I have broken enough bones riding even more precariously then you can even think of, but here we usually refer to people who just want to ride and not race from point A to B in minimum time. They are more concerned being advised on possible fallout and technical problems that may stalk them on road then proving some point with iron butt. Please try and address their request for information objectively and consider their age and time gap they might not ridden for all these years. Roads are meant to be just what they are, roads, not race tracks. I have done srinagar-delhi under 20 hours in full monsoon season not very long ago, but whenever I think back I shudder at the irresponsible speeds I have driven and I cant remember much about the places I gave a pass in favour of not breaking my riding pep and that emergency back home which prompted me to ride like hell.

[Yogesh Sarkar]

Hippie at Heart, on May 12 2006, 11:44 AM, said:

Yogesh, we are not trying to break new speed records, its something to do with age and riding style, I have broken enough bones riding even more precariously then you can even think of, but here we usually refer to people who just want to ride and not race from point A to B in minimum time. They are more concerned being advised on possible fallout and technical problems that may stalk them on road then proving some point with iron butt. Please try and address their request for information objectively and consider their age and time gap they might not ridden for all these years. Roads are meant to be just what they are, roads, not race tracks. I have done srinagar-delhi under 20 hours in full monsoon season not very long ago, but whenever I think back I shudder at the irresponsible speeds I have driven and I cant remember much about the places I gave a pass in favour of not breaking my riding pep and that emergency back home which prompted me to ride like hell.

Agreed, but rides like iron butts prove how much a well maintained motorcycle can take. It differs from bike to bike, but still if a 223cc 4st thumper can do 1750kms in 24hours and that too on roads of India. Its some what of a stamp on the ability of the bike.

[HowieUK]

Thanks for all the advice guys,

I think I am going for one of the Hondas!

I have owned 3 before, a stepthrough Honda 70 (embarrasing I know!), A 250 Superdream and a CX500 so I am familiar with them.

I sold my last bike the Yam XJ900 seven years ago and have had itchy feet ever since so it will be great to get back in the saddle.

Hope to ride with some of you soon

Howie

PS The South has been put on hold for a while so no dashing up and down the country required!
When I get to finalise the dates when I will get to Delhi I will post here to see if anyone knows of something suitable for sale or can recommend a dealer.