[cathwatkin]

Hello everyone out there,

Am really hoping that someone will read this and have some knowledge/experience of this.

I am due to enter India  from the UK this Tuesday (13 March) (yipee!).  However I'm entering on a cheap return to Goa with Thomsonfly.  The plan was to just not use the return portion and then buy a one-way ticket home when I'm ready.

However I've since discovered that it is illegal to enter India on a charter and leave on a scheduled airline (the British High Commission have confirmed this).   As I have to leave India in August to be home for a wedding, and there are no charter flights operating at this time of year this is more than a bit worrying.... However I don't really want to purchase a whole new ticket.

Can anyone offer me any advice??  Is this rule tightly regulated?  How can they check??  Should I take the chance or do you have experience of being caught out by this rule?

Any advice/comments will be VERY VERY gratefully received.

Regards

Catherine

[john.sw]

Hi Catherine,

According to the rules of the Indian Charter, a passenger on a charter flight has to return on the same service.

It is illegal to enter on a scheduled flight and out on a charter flight, and vice versa.

Tourists travelling to India on charters have to stay for a minimum of one week and a maximum of four weeks.

Special permission is required to amend this rule as the flight manifest of the charter flight is retained by the Immigration authorities.  I am not sure what would happen if you "missed your return flight" for some reason or another.  You would probably have to visit the immigration authorities and take it from there.

Single fares very often cost as much or more than return fares, so you could actually save money by giving up your charter holiday (claiming on your travel insurance, or selling it to someone).

Another idea is to come home on your charter flight, say "Hi" to friends and family, and immediately travel back to India on a scheduled flight!

You take your chances with officials in India.  Some Immigration officials don't give a toss, but there are other who go strictly by the book, and will throw it at you for the slightest offence.

Personally, I wouldn't take the risk.

[dzibead]

john.sw, on Mar 10 2007, 06:29 AM, said:

Another idea is to come home on your charter flight, say "Hi" to friends and family, and immediately travel back to India on a scheduled flight!

You have to make sure your visa would permit this option, too.  Is it a multiple entry visa?

[cathwatkin]

John,
Thank you very much for your knowledgable post.  When you say that some officials will throw the book at me .... Do you happen to know what the worst penalty would be?   ie I'm assuming they wouldn't lock me up???  Could they stop me leaving the country altogether or is the worst that could happen inconvenience and fines?

It would be good if you reply if you do have knowledge of this - if I'm going to forfeit my ticket I need to make a decision quickly and it seems to be impossible to find out anything about this rule.

I can't help thinking that I only know about it by sheer chance, and it is so hard to find out about it that lots of travellers must make the same mistake and they all get home OK in the end - or do they??

Edited by cathwatkin, 11 March 2007 - 01:01 PM.

[Judi]

Why assume they wouldn't lock you up?????????

How ever unfair 'rules' might seem, they are the terms on which you booked your holiday (knowingly or not!) - therefore surely you should abide by the rules or take the consequences.  As a very experienced traveller to India, Joh has given you some of the best advice available on the net ......  and if he advises you not to do it, he probably has a very good reason.

[dzibead]

It's surprising that the charter company didn't provide its clients with a warning regarding the minimum required and maximum permitted stay for tourists arriving on charters, or the requirement that the the passenger has to return on the same service -- or did they, and did the OP just not read "the fine print"?

[malkers]

Hi Catherine

Why not give it a try and see if it works, then report back here and let us know, obviously if we don't hear from you we'll know that it didn't  

Seriously though, I'm sure a great many folk have got away with this before and will probably continue to do so, there will be some however that didn't get away with it I guess.  Wish I knew of some tales to tell on this.

Having lived there for a couple of years and been through an Indian airport on about 70 occassions, I absolutely wouldn't risk it either.  Passport control and airports in general can be hell when you HAVEN'T done anything wrong!

Cheers
Malc

[cyberhippie]

This isn't new rule, it's as old as the hills and strikes me as market protection, rather than a fair policy. Friends of mine have been doing this for years without any problem. Often purchsing cheap tickets back to the UK on charter flights from Goa (another thing you're not allowed to do officially but it happens regularly) To date none of them have had any problems whatsoever bearing n mind they often exit from Dabolim 5 months down the line and on a different charter, or indeed from Delhi or Mumbai.
This ISN'T an immigration question, your standard 6 month multiple entry visa is just that, valid for 6 months from issue and allows multiple entries into India within the given time frame.

India is trying to shepherd us into this, to protect the Scheduled Carrier markets. As far as I'm aware this is an IATA  rule, which the AAI has adopted and as such is unlikely to bring any serious problems should you get caught. You haven't broken any immigration rules, only some rule designed to keep the relative cheapness of charter travel as a seperate entity in the world of international flights.

The first thing India has to do IF they want to enforce this, is start issueing a cheaper visa alternative, it's crazy to issue visas with 6 months validity, then say your mode of travel curtails the validity of the tourist visa to two or three weeks!

[john.sw]

This is nothing to do with a visa.  I don't need a visa, but is still applies to me, as it does to Indians travelling overseas on charter flights.

Quote

It's surprising that the charter company didn't provide its clients with a warning regarding the minimum required and maximum permitted stay for tourists arriving on charters, or the requirement that the the passenger has to return on the same service

If Catherine bought a "Three week package tour to Goa", why would the travel company expect her to do anything other than spend three weeks in Goa and then return of the flight for which she has already paid?

I suppose it's a bit like booking a table in a restaurant and having the first course; popping across the road to a different restaurant for your main course, and returning to the first restaurant for your desert.  I don't think the restaurant would have explained the terms and conditions at the time of booking!

I have never been on a package tour, but I do wonder if there is anything in the Contract to prevent you from doing anything like this.  I once saw a 21 day package to Goa for very little money and considered buying it and flying down to Cochin the moment the plane landed in Goa.  Would this be breaking the package company's rules?  They can't be making much (if anything) on the flights so they will be relying to some extent on you paying for extras in your hotel and in the gift shop.

It would be good to hear first hand from someone who has actually done what Catherine proposes.  As Malkers said, he  wouldn't risk it, and he's done a lot of flying to, from, and within India.  

[cyberhippie]

The visa status is relevant because it's bordering on fraudulent behaviuor to sell a visa on the basis of six month validity, then shorten it because of the way you enter the country!

Charter companies know full well that this happens John and have been making extra money out of the situation for years with offers like a flight and one night in dormitory accomodation for 135 quid. It's one way of filling empty seats on an aircraft I suppose.
The seats available (illegally) out of Goa are probably all the "no shows" who've stayed on in Goa so double money for the Charter Company, no need to spend any time worrying about their revenues they do that themselves!

As for people who have done it, well my Mother and Father in law several times and a collection of mates from around Goa have been doing it every year for 10 years now, including this year without a hitch!!

Like I said I think it's the sheduled airlines Bitchin about losing some of their passegers to charter flights (by the way there are several charter flights who offer flights only now)

[H.Nick]

If the Indian government enforces this rule it might be a good idea if they were to publicise it!

They don't.

[HowieUK]

I too know of a good few people who throw away the return ticket of the charter flight and then return to their home country on a scheduled flight. They say the way to do it is to return to their own country from a different airport and not Goa (where the bulk of charter's fly to).  

Howie

[cathwatkin]

Hello Everyone
I just want to thank you all for the advice and information you've provided which helped me decide what to do.  And the result - I am writing this from Goa having flown in last night on the charter flight I had originally booked.   I expect to come home, probably from Delhi, in the first two weeks of August - and I will definitely update this thread about what happens.
Finding out more about this rule has been an interesting exercise.    As well as your comments above I was informed the following:
Indian High Commission in London - told me it was fine to enter on a charter and leave on a scheduled.
Thomsonfly - also told me it was fine for me to not return on my charter flight and I didn't even need to inform them
Indian Tourist Authority - told me it isn't allowed.
British High Commission in India - told me it isn't allowed
The only piece of information I could find on the net (other than on this and another forum) was by the Civil Aviation Ministry and appeared to be a set of rules aimed at the Airline rather than at passengers generally.
Ultimately, despite posting this enquiry on this and another forum I have not yet come across anyone who had a problem doing this and quite a few who had no problem - so I decided to give it a go ... as I said I will come back and update on whether this was a wise decision or not!!

[john.sw]

cathwatkin, on Mar 14 2007, 08:24 AM, said:

... I am writing this from Goa having flown in last night on the charter flight I had originally booked.   I expect to come home, probably from Delhi, in the first two weeks of August - and I will definitely update this thread about what happens...

Lucky you!

Please do let us know what happens - it will be good to have a first-hand account of what, if anything, transpires!

Also, please keep us posted on your visit to India.  I have never been to Goa, and I think that I probably should make the effort  

[cyberhippie]

Have fun and DO keep us posted when you get back. If we don't hear from you............