[john.sw]

Do you give to beggars?

Please take part in the poll and let us know your views here.

[Seventies'Neil]

I've been there, and have had to do that,,,,,,,,,,,,

But that was 30yrs ago, So yes sure, Now I can, I do give occasionally,
When you've got absolutely nothing to your name, certainly no cash, plastic, or anyone to wire money out to you, you view life & people in a whole new light. But ho ho, that is very enriching in itself,,,,,,,,,,
        
But of course the situation & circumstances do dictate who I give too & how much they get.
I definitely don't give to young beggers who think it's a game to beg from foreigners. I will give to some old person who looks in need , sometimes even when they haven't asked. Or I'd perhaps pay for something for them. I would also consider giving to an amputee or disfigured person as long as they didn't seem to be a "professional"

Ok I know theres a school of thought that it's encouraging people to beg, but you've got to weigh each instance up as it appears to you.
I certainly don't agree with the "no I don't give anything to anyone brigade"

[Poiple Shadow]

Giving to beggars...  hmm...  I rarely give money, and if I do only a few rupees (but it's rare)...  I was just thinking about the alcoholic mother and the pain that caused, what would the money be spent on and would they get it or would it go to someone who 'managed the children/beggars?)...  If that's the case where do the managers of the stop, at a broken leg, cut off fingers, or erhaps a limb....  This is my main reason for not giving.  There might be a few that spend it on food, bt if they're really desperate they're more likely to spend it on alcohol to take away the food cravings and stop the miser in their life...

If I give then fruit/healthy food is what I would give...  Any one any comments, I just go with what I've seen, would like input otherwise..

[iwanttogoback]

the idea of providing food, a snack or a meal seems to be a productive one. I know that I felt quite comfortable giving to a beggars restaurant in ahmedabad.

[captmahajan]

Though I voted sometimes and more than 10 rupees, I try to give something to eat. There is usually a shop around.

The only guy I used to give money regularly was a guy without legs on a homemade skateboard at a traffic light here in Hyderabad, because he never asked. Haven't seen him around recently.

[cyberhippie]

Poiple Shadow it's a common misconception that these "managers" as you call them are menovelent monsters, it's not always the case, beggers are often organised and the managers elected to keep a patch free from incomers seeking new ground!!

So the stories of these mafia style bosses lording it like Fagen over young beggers whilst true; is not the whole story!!

Yes I sometimes give to beggers I may have the wool pulled over my eyes sometimes (though I don't really see the harm if they slope of for a swift "bangla" I'm guessing I'd feel the same way if I lived on a dusty street dependant on passing strangers) but I like to think I've the experience to know when the situation warrents it!!

[jyotirmoy]

In Jama Masjid & Nizamuddin area in Delhi you will see a group of very poor people crouched outside small eateries... you will see them as you come out of Karims. The owners of these eateries feed one person with 2 rotis & curry for 10 rupees. When ever I go to these places like I did last night with our member jaybel for dinner at Karims I hand over 50 bucks to the owner & instruct him to call in 5 children. But becareful you might be mobbed after that Indianworker is a testimony to that... jaybel escaped unscathed tho...

cyberhippie, on Sep 24 2006, 01:30 PM, said:

Poiple Shadow it's a common misconception that these "managers" as you call them are menovelent monsters, it's not always the case, beggers are often organised and the managers elected to keep a patch free from incomers seeking new ground!!

So the stories of these mafia style bosses lording it like Fagen over young beggers whilst true; is not the whole story!!

Yes I sometimes give to beggers I may have the wool pulled over my eyes sometimes (though I don't really see the harm if they slope of for a swift "bangla" I'm guessing I'd feel the same way if I lived on a dusty street dependant on passing strangers) but I like to think I've the experience to know when the situation warrents it!!

Swift "Bangla" now you are talking brother Cyber

[malkers]

OK, here goes Mr Controversial!

I like to think I treat all human beings as equals, except that is beggars and anybody trying to con me or hassle me to buy something I don't want!

I have zero tolerance for beggars anywhere in the world whatever their circumstances and I don't believe in such thing as a genuine beggar, if there is such a thing well OK but I've yet to find one!  The folk that bring children in to this world purely for the purpose of earning money out of them are the lowest form of being on earth in my eyes, same goes for the ladies that share the baby and pass it around at the busiet traffic point in town filling its lungs with sh*t and fumes.  How an earth anyone can support this evil practice is beyond me.

These folk are not interested in working, if you offer them money to do something for you then this is one of the quickest ways to get rid of them!  I'd much rather give money to a poor shoe cleaner for not even cleaning my shoes just for the fact he or she is making an effort to eek a living.  I give extra to my maid and my driver because I am outraged at the difference in earnings they have to say an office worker when they work just as hard.

Every time I see a beggar clapping eyes on me and making a beeline for my white face amongst a crowd I am filled with rage that I didn't know existed in me and if they dare to yank my arm or block my way they soon wish they hadn't.  The ones that purposely wait outside a restaurant for me or worse still, come in and beg, well you can imagine my response and as for the lovely lady boys that threaten to curse me and my children if I don't give, well luckily the look on my face kinda warns them they are about to get thumped and they head off pretty quickly.

For some reason the most annoyed I have ever been by a beggar was on the Darjeeling Toy Train, I'd bought my ticket and boarded just before it pulled off, I was chatting to a lovely Indian/Australian couple when a clean dressed man in perfect health saw us and boarded our carriage and held his hands out to both of us right in the middle of our conversation, I wanted to kill him but bit my tongue and hussled him out of the train.  I hate it when the beggars come onto normal trains and you have to bolt yourself to all your valuables until the train pulls off, why doesn't anyone stop this from happening?

If the law clamped down on this antisocial behaviour then these people would have to do something else wouldn't they?

OK, so look at me sat in my Ivory Tower preaching to the poor, yep I had a relatively comfortable upbringing in my western country and didn't want for too much!  But begging is something I will never support, not ever.  Asking for help is a totally different thing, I'll help anyone in need, a total stranger even, I'll support certain charities if I believe they are making a difference and with my new found passion from India and wealth from trading with India I hope to give a whole lot back before I die and if there is ever a cause for getting beggars to actually get off the street and do some work then I'll support that wholeheartedly!

I don't have a problem with those folk who do give to beggars, I just wish they wouldn't as I personally think thats a contibution in making the world a worse place!

My opinions of course, I don't expect anyone to agree with them but hope some may see my point!

Malc

[YETI]

Sometimes I  give, sometimes I don't.

I try not to think about it too much as I usually end up making moral judgements about people I know nothing about. This doesn't sit very easily with me.

So sometimes I give a few rupees, other times I don't.

[captmahajan]

I understand what malkers is saying. kind of, because I have not so far been a foreigner besieged by beggars!

I used to feel the same way, but then, I had one or two near death experiences, and it became a mix of "there but for fate go i" and "live and let live"

though I still get reasonably pissed off at being surrounded by touts or beggars, anywhere.

[priya]

I must confess that I'm a sucker for the children and the old people .......but did get annoyed when I was approached more than once, on the same day, by the same people to whom I'd given  

[dzibead]

I give sometimes, especially to people who are severely disabled, like people with no legs or hands, or with severe crippling from polio, or things like that.  What other choice do these people have?  If their family can't take care of them, is there any  "safety net" for them in India?  Anything like Social Security or state-sponsored disability support that exists in other countries?  I'm woefully ignorant about this, but I suspect there isn't anything, and that it all comes down to NGO's (or the Shanthi's and Poiple Shadows of this world), who, I'm sure don't have the resources or the infrastructure to care for everyone.  So the disabled poor have no choice but to beg.

I am sort of bugged, however, by the women who stand in traffic, holding a child and tapping on your car window - or even reaching inside if you're foolish enough to be sitting there with the window open.  When I first went to India I felt very guilty about these women and their kids and wanted to give money to all of them, but my drivers were always vociferously INSISTENT that I had to ignore them!  I was then told that this is often a scam or just treated as a "job" by these women and that the children are often props.  But still ... I suspect that these people ARE poor, and what other options are available to them?  Is there a male breadwinner on the scene?  Or have they been abandoned?  And what about the children?  They're just innocent victims, no matter how you look at it.  I guess giving money to them just perpetuates the problem, and I don't do it now, but what other options are available for them?

In spite of our undeniable affluece, we have plenty of beggars in the U.S., too, and at least in California, a lot of them are mentally ill and should be in care somewhere.  But when Ronald Reagan was governer of California, he effectively dismantled the mental health system and it's never been same since, so now those people are on the street.  Ironic that he himself was afflicted by Alzheimer's at the end of his life.  Good thing he was rich, or he would have been one of those hapless creatures living on the street, too.  Also ironic is the fact that his totally bitchy wife Nancy didn't show any shred of sympathy for "the afflicted" until her dear Ronnie was a victim.  So sad that people can't show any empathy for others until some disaster jumps up and bites them in their own ass.  So I feel a little bit like the good Captain, above:  There but for the grace of God - or fate - go I!"

[digital drifter]

Quote

Good thing he was rich, or he would have been one of those hapless creatures living on the street, too. Also ironic is the fact that his totally bitchy wife Nancy didn't show any shred of sympathy for "the afflicted" until her dear Ronnie was a victim. So sad that people can't show any empathy for others until some disaster jumps up and bits them in their own ass.

watch the Bushes Turn 180 degrees when they discover their kennenbrucket hideaway is going under water because of Global warming.

When I tell my friends of minimum wage, unions, welfare nets, medical care, old age care, it fcuking bores them.

Not till they hear

a) an overworked Air Traffic Controller caused a fatal crash
b ) a low paid Mex. immigrant connects the Nitrogen tank to the Oxygen inlet in a hospital killing a few elders in the ICU
c) truckers carrying hazardous goods for more than 6 hours driving on European roads.

While completely OT to the thread, it  might be a good idea to reflect that your life is more in danger from an underpaid, overworked person who hasn't got the faintest training or experience compared to s terrorist attack.


We are all going to die because someone forgot to shut the door (I believe the cause of rollo ferry disaster in Bournesmouth? in the UK was exactly that)

& yeah, it really depends on your mood, that you may or may not want to give to beggars.

[dzibead]

digital drifter, on Sep 25 2006, 11:23 AM, said:

watch the Bushes Turn 180 degrees when they discover their kennenbrucket hideaway is going under water because of Global warming.

Totally OT but ... they'll still figure out a way to blame it on Bill Clinton.

[Snowcrab]

I just give as the spirit moves me, usually to people who do not approach me in an aggressive or demanding way. That attitude annoys me. Got no problem rolling up the window if someone sticks an arm in. Politeness costs nothing, anyone can do it.

[Yashodhara]

dzi, this is a very good and deliberate post that meets the complex issue of begging. It would be dishonest to deny that many people are forced to beg for lack of better alternatives. Society suggests that with the right amount of effort and struggle everything is possible for everyone, but we all know this is far from the truth. Without the right background, education and network career advancement has its limits, and becoming a quarryman (est. 50 Rupees a day) might not seem a dream come true. We should not forget that although these people have not the slightest chance to ever enjoy any of the luxuries we take for granted in our daily lives, they might still have the same dreams, hopes and fears as we do.

[cyberhippie]

Yashodhara, on Sep 26 2006, 07:44 AM, said:

Without the right background, education and network career advancement has its limits,

Add to this caste and family connection connections and your halfway to understanding the poverty trap in India.

My breakfast place employs a young boy on 800 rupees a month. There's a whole caste/family network involved in finding the "RIGHT CANDIDATE"
Such is the interest in the job!

Wasn't Nick H talking about checkout girls or something, who needed Uni qualifications to apply????

[torryquine]

Seventies, on Sep 24 2006, 12:21 PM, said:

But of course the situation & circumstances do dictate who I give too & how much they get.
I definitely don't give to young beggers who think it's a game to beg from foreigners. I will give to some old person who looks in need , sometimes even when they haven't asked. Or I'd perhaps pay for something for them. I would also consider giving to an amputee or disfigured person as long as they didn't seem to be a "professional"

Ok I know theres a school of thought that it's encouraging people to beg, but you've got to weigh each instance up as it appears to you.
I certainly don't agree with the "no I don't give anything to anyone brigade"

This pretty much sums up our approach.  We NEVER give to children 1) they could be exploited 2) sets a terrible precedent in a yourng life 3) how would you react if you saw a stranger giving things to children in your neighbourhood?

If someone healthy looking approaches us it's a definite NO.  But we can't walk past a little old lady sitting quietly on the street, or obvious cases of need such as the badly stricken leper we met in Ooty.

I gave 10 rupees to an obviously crippled man near Tanjore and watched as he handed some of his earnings (a small coin) to his "minder/handler".  We reflected that this was the man paying for his "assistance" - the handler could only make money if the disabled man was able to beg and in the right place to do so - a symbiotic relationship in other words.  The disabled man gave us a big smile and a wave as we left.

[volga_volga]

I ALWAYS give to old people, NEVER to children

the rest - depends on the beggar's persistence, the more he asks, the less he receives