[priya]

Copied and distributed!!!!  lolsmiley.gif   3.71K   1 downloads Brilliant, too good not to share.

[gautam]

Conor M, on Sep 27 2006, 05:40 PM, said:

that I was liking all the Bollywood music.....!

Conor,

Have a care, Ma India is sneaking up on you! Your English  may be "liking" ours too well!

P.S. In a way, I find it intriguing, how an ancient Vedic, even more than Sanskrit, verbal tense form dominates the Indian sense of time when translating into English: I am having a car = I have a car; very common Indianism. I am liking all Bollywood music =I like all Bollywood music.

The Vedic perfect tense was the oldest form, using just 1 set of suffixes to indicate one "timeless" time: e.g. paptur: they fly, are flying [includes the present, perfect and the continuous, and many a modern Indian does exactly the same thing with his homegrown English].

Very interesting deep structure persisting; makes one wonder if this particualr aspect of grammar is hard-wired for a particular genetic group of Indians? Interesting speculation about language, anyway.

Edited by gautam, 02 November 2007 - 12:27 AM.

[WonderWomanUSA]

kullukid, on Sep 27 2006, 02:07 AM, said:

Great write-up Cyber! CRANK RIDGE? Hhmmm, No Comment!
Is that where Lama Govinda Anagarika lived author of "The Way OF The White Cloud" I think it was somewhere round there?

Lama Govinda was beyond Crank's Ridge. I was staying up in Almora (at Snow View Estates, which was, I believe, on Crank's Ridge) in spring of 1973, and the friends I was visiting decided to take me over to meet Govinda, who was supposed to leave the next day. So we set out, on slippery pine needle paths, and out of nowhere a huge hail storm blew up and made it impossible to walk on the slopes -- obvioiusly the gods did NOT want me to meet Lama Govinda.

There were a couple of old Englishmen staying up there; I had tea with them every afternoon. One wore dark red robes, like the Tibetan Buddhists; he had been married to a woman from Kulu but when she died, the family took back the orchards. The other one, Michael, wore BLACK robes and was extremely well educated; he could talk about almost anything. They were in their 60s, I believe, and very nice to this traveller.

[WonderWomanUSA]

Although I remember bits and pieces of so many Indian train journeys, the most memorable was in 1972 or 1973, when I was on my way South from Bombay and on a train going through Andhra Pradesh at the time when the people were on strike, trying to make Telegu one of the official languages of India. They would, in the best non-violent tradition, lie on the tracks and not let the train go.

Need I say that we missed all our meal stops? When we finally got to some station where there was food available on the platform, everybody ran out of the car .. it had been 20-some hours and we were all starved. One fellow suggested that I wait until the next station, that the food in this place was not good. Well, it was rice and something wrapped in leaves and tied with twine -- and he was right, it was terrible. I ate a little of it, and gave the rest to some poor kids who'd come onto the train, and got something a bit better at the next station.

My 30-something-hour journey took 50 hours to complete; I was exhausted by the time I got to wherever I was going and it was years before I went back to Andhra!

Oh, in those days, I travelled 3rd class -- it was dirt cheap and people were really lovely! And they sang all the songs from Hare Ram, Hare Krisna to us, on every single train we took for a couple of years! Conor would have loved it!!  

[cyberhippie]

I love your stories from the 70's wwusa, in third class too, a "proper traveller" we young uns don't know we're born.

[jyotirmoy]

That rice you ate was I think curd rice. Rice mixed with curd tempered with roasted mustard seeds and Arhar dal. A piece of lime chily chutney is also included.

[john.sw]

gautam, on Nov 1 2007, 06:42 PM, said:

...when translating into English: I am having a car = I have a car; very common Indianism.

More confusing would be:

I am having a baby = I have a baby  

[Hyderabadi]

WonderWomanUSA, on Nov 3 2007, 02:23 AM, said:

the most memorable was in 1972 or 1973, when I was on my way South from Bombay and on a train going through Andhra Pradesh at the time when the people were on strike, trying to make Telegu one of the official languages of India. They would, in the best non-violent tradition, lie on the tracks and not let the train go.

That could have been the time when there was a demand for a separate Telangana State. A political stunt.

There is one going on these days too, to split the state into two, it can't be bad that the 'Neta' of the  party that's demanding this is a perpetual drunk.

[WonderWomanUSA]

Hyderabadi, on Nov 3 2007, 06:56 AM, said:

That could have been the time when there was a demand for a separate Telangana State. A political stunt.

There is one going on these days too, to split the state into two, it can't be bad that the 'Neta' of the  party that's demanding this is a perpetual drunk.

I still have a little piece of yellow fabric, with their demands written in Telegu. If I can find it, I will photocopy it for you and you can tell us what they were demanding!

[WonderWomanUSA]

cyberhippie, on Nov 2 2007, 11:39 PM, said:

I love your stories from the 70's wwusa, in third class too, a "proper traveller" we young uns don't know we're born.

If you've ever seen Louis Malle's film, Phantom India, you've seen that India -- and ya know, it was a different country when compared to the India we now know.

[gautam]

WonderWoman,

This might have been before your time, but did you ever happen to run across Lizelle Raymond in or near Almora, near Kasardevi? She had stayed with ShriAnirvan there during the 50s there. Her experiences are recounted in the book Life With A Himalayan Guru. You might find that an interesting read.

In the early 70s he was quite old and back in Kolkata where he passed away, after having fractured a hip, in 1978. Anirvan was a very interesting person, cut from different cloth than the usual. If you had met Khunu Lama, you would understand what I mean.

I wonder if any of the two gentlemen you met ever mentioned Lizelle Raymond or Anirvan in their conversations?

the early 70s were a terrible time for a number of places in the eastern half of India, bloodshed on a scale difficult to describe or comprehend, even to other Indians living not tens of kilometeres away. Let alone across a generation. So when a nice person like our friend Paagla Daashu writes me stuff, I despair, and let it be, realizing there cannot be dialogue, a communication across the chasm of time, circumstance and perspective!

Returning to HareKrishna HareRam, did you ever get to see the famous film starring Dev Anand,  and also the heartbreak of 1973, "Bobby" starring Dimple and Rajesh Khanna? I have to confess that I have never seen either, much to my chagrin!

Maybe you can rent out a CD of the former and have a small India Memories/Andhra memories evening, along with your Hyderabadi Biryani adventure with your friends, one Friday or Saturday!

[jyotirmoy]

I still have nightmares of the dark clouds that had gathered over us in the 70's. I don't think there is a single family in Kolkata who had not lost a near and dear one either killed in inter party armed clashes or shot dead by the cops. So many talented young men's blood flowed and drentched the streets, lanes and bylanes of Kolkata. I had written about those dark days earlier.
Later out of the mangled flesh, abandoned bones and blood caked earth another Kolkata emerged. Third class sounded embarassing so we discontinued them. The 3-tier became the choice of the new middle class Bhadroloks(gentlemen). Stainless steel trays arrived in the hands of the cateres, so the tiffincarriers went to the attic. The restaurant car vanished and with that having a snack of chicken cutlet and tea or a three course dinner vanished too.
From there to Airdeccan via 3AC and 2AC is another memorable JOURNEY.

[WonderWomanUSA]

gautam, on Nov 3 2007, 01:04 PM, said:

WonderWoman,

This might have been before your time, but did you ever happen to run across Lizelle Raymond in or near Almora, near Kasardevi? She had stayed with ShriAnirvan there during the 50s there. Her experiences are recounted in the book Life With A Himalayan Guru. You might find that an interesting read.

In the early 70s he was quite old and back in Kolkata where he passed away, after having fractured a hip, in 1978. Anirvan was a very interesting person, cut from different cloth than the usual. If you had met Khunu Lama, you would understand what I mean.

I wonder if any of the two gentlemen you met ever mentioned Lizelle Raymond or Anirvan in their conversations?

I don't recall her name -- nor that of Anirvan, who sounds quite interesting.

Quote

the early 70s were a terrible time for a number of places in the eastern half of India, bloodshed on a scale difficult to describe or comprehend, even to other Indians living not tens of kilometeres away. Let alone across a generation. So when a nice person like our friend Paagla Daashu writes me stuff, I despair, and let it be, realizing there cannot be dialogue, a communication across the chasm of time, circumstance and perspective!

Yes, friends who were in Calcutta a few years before I first went to India were caught in one riot or another and told some hairy stories about it.

Quote

Returning to HareKrishna HareRam, did you ever get to see the famous film starring Dev Anand,  and also the heartbreak of 1973, "Bobby" starring Dimple and Rajesh Khanna? I have to confess that I have never seen either, much to my chagrin!

As a matter of fact, I rented "Hare Ram, Hare Krisna" from Netflix recently -- because I'd never seen it. Ah, it is quite dated now, but still a tearjerker of a story! Alas, "Bobby" is not yet available in DVD, though a later film of the same name is available on Netflix.

Quote

Maybe you can rent out a CD of the former and have a small India Memories/Andhra memories evening, along with your Hyderabadi Biryani adventure with your friends, one Friday or Saturday!

Maybe some of the India travellers would be interested, but not the others I know -- including the pair who accompanied me to the biriani house ... they are a bit younger and not-so-interested in the old days.

[gautam]

Dear Jyotida,

The earlier first class coupes, before the corridor types were introduced, were individual cars, or individual compartments opening to the platform. Since I have ridden in them only once or twice, I cannot exactly remember whether they had a device or rather a space under the window that allowed a block of ice to be slid in with ease, the only way to cool [ineffectively] these box ovens on the 2 day journeys across the breadth of the country.

Later, a very messy arrangement, whereby a block of ice covered with sawdust contained in a precarious metal container would be available for first class compartments, the ice replaced at major junctions, the meltwater creating an unholy mess all over the already dirt-streaked floor. I do not know if this arrangement cooled the air or not. he thick covering of sawdust meant that it was almost impossible to cool any water bottles on the ice block, or cool towels on it to wipe yourself, because however carefully you scraped away the sawdust, enough found their way into the towels to cause the most ferocious itching. And then there was the coal dust and embers from the locomotive to add to the general comfort level!!!

I do so love those steam engine fans who come from distant lands to marvel at these wonderful machines. I hope they never have had the fun of enduring a trans-Indian journey during summer in a Janata express [God forbid Danapore Fast Passenger! Gaya 109F at 9 am!] in a rake pulled by one of these!

I asked a railway driver what it was like inside the driving space of the engine, and he replied it was sheer torture, especially when they traversed the tunnels between CCU and Mumbai going uphill. For the colliers, too, working in a confined space, shovelling coal rapidly to keep pace with the demand as temperatures climbed to 140F and above, it became quite life-threatening on these runs in summer. Past Dongargarh, which we liked because of the tasty chicken curry and a chance to stretch our legs, the train crew on the UP leg viewed the 'climb'  towards Mumbai with a sort of resigned dismay.

[jyotirmoy]

Yes bhai Gautam during our school days people travelling by 1st. class during summer holidays had trays of ice placed in the centre of the compartment. There used to be 4 fans on the celing mounted on swivels. These used to be aligned so that the combined air stream hit the block of ice and bounced off. As you said the melting ice did make a lot of mess. Safaiwallas came at regular intervals to mop.
The windows had three shutters, glass, louvered sheet and wire mesh. At night you went to sleep with the louvered shutter and veified the lock. Morning you woke up and there was fine coal dust on your sheets and pillow. We kids were always warned of coal dust getting in to our eyes when we demanded all shutters to be opened and by jove we had coal getting in to our eyes.
Water used to be often carried in clay pots of special shape and made with sandy clay that made water to evaporate there by cooling it. These used to be sold on platforms too. Often buyers ended up buying a leaky pot.

[gautam]

You knew a Bengali family was off on an "adbhenchaar" when all of the following could be seen:

1. the all-important hold-all bag ; a canvas and leather duffel like monstrosity embellished with leather straps. In it resided bedsheets, wool blankets, pillows, all the appurtenances for a family of 5-6 braving the polar climes of a "hill station."

2. Suitcases encased in cloth covers. less said the better.

3. Tiffin carrier. Exciting! Food for one whole day, possibly another night. It was a cold day in Kolkata before we were allowed to sample the fleshpots of railway stations!! Tea was fine, all else ....... So along with the tiffin carrier rode a wicker hamper carrying little plates,spoons, all quickly and efficiently washed out in the compartment.  As were hands. As were daily showers w/o fail. Don't ask.

4. kunjo in its wooden frame: clay olla, water jar, condemned at stocks, carefully covered with a silly tumbler

5. And the grand finale, when eminent or older members were traveling, a whole sheath of green coconuts!!! Again, don't ask! Sometimes, a small bunch, not hand, of bananas; i.e. 7-8 hands of admittedly small finger bananas, highly resistant to over-ripening.

Other stuff too, but failing memory thankfully has drawn a merciful haze over all the rest.

This scene was repeatedly endlessly, by scores of families, even when the journey was a few hours long and they were off to hazaribagh or other resorts on the Chota Nagpur Plateau. The coconuts would follow them to that coco-less wilderness, where elsewhere they would have quenched the killing thirst of an "upcountry" summer afternoon.

THe morning noises and ablutions were another thing altogether. One wondered how Bengalis ever manifested their conjugal selves and multiplied, having witnessed each other in such a state. I suppose if Biharis can, and with apparent gusto, so might their neighbors. I have no personal experience whatsoever.