[Dan Wood]

What sort of problem will they each face you with, and how do you deal with it?

Will they resolve to violence? Or will it be verbal argueing/violence?

[batistuta]

Hi Dan ,
welcome to the board,
Here is a link from this forum which informs how to deal with beggars and touts.
http://www.gourmetin...p?showtopic=166


touts: Pit them against each other and get the best deal :-)
Beggars: There could be many choices based on how you feel about the situation. I would just walk away from most beggars who haggle or follow me. I might get into some shop or business to seek their help too. But I would say, do NOT give money or anything of resaleable value to children. If you feel like, you may offer to buy them food instead.

Taxi drivers :if you knw the average fare to the place whre you intend to visit by getting info frm members
here then if will save you a lot of hassle.

Be well informed abt these things and you will not even get into arguments leave alone violence.

Have a great time in India.!!

[malkers]

Here is a snippet out of my eguide I wrote for Bangalore which is generic for anywhere!


These are a nuisance that you will hopefully get used to.  Children as young as 3 years old will often tap on your leg and harass you the whole length of the street asking for money, sometimes 2 or 3 at once.  It is embarrassing as you walk particularly if you are light skinned, local folk will be watching you the whole time curious as to what your reaction will be.


Though this appears very sad, giving money to these kids is not an answer to the problem nor is it any guarantee they’ll leave you alone.  Many of these children and their parents are offered daily food and education by the local government but they choose not to take it, probably because it is more lucrative to prey on wealthier visitors to the city.  There is also clear evidence that many of these kids give money to their Father who is often close by and this simply funds a drinking or smoking habit.


If the guilt does get to you, offer the child some sweets, fruit or buy them an ice cream but then you must be prepared for them to pounce the next time you are on their patch.  You will also find yourself approached regularly at traffic lights, often by a woman carrying a young child; they will constantly tap you on the arm or leg and repeat the word ‘Man’, ‘Madam’, ‘Uncle’, Auntie’ about 100 times simply to annoy you in to giving them something.  These babies are not necessarily their own, believe it or not some mothers actually rent out their babies for the day to beggars who take the baby in turns to pull at your heart strings.  Most people simply ignore them as if they weren’t there, some tell them to get lost or shout “no’, either way nobody gets offended by your response but you should not attempt to push or hit them, it’s what they do and it sadly won't change.

Another light annoyance is the plentiful street traders that again will follow you the length of the street trying to persuade you to buy a fake Rolex watch, maps of India, miniature chess boards, snakes, clothes, wooden carvings, flutes, gyro helicopters and a whole host of other junk, treat this like a bit of fun and banter and you’ll have a good old laugh each time you see them.  They will start off by offering you their goods at a high price seemingly dropping this with each determined step you take away from them.  I seem to have found an answer to this, the moment they make eye contact, I simply raise my arm as a ‘halt’ sign and say “no thanks boss” and walk firmly past them like I’m in too much of a hurry to even listen.  As I wander down Brigade and MG Road nowadays, many traders recognise me and don’t even waste their breath apart from maybe a “Good Morning” or two.  A particular watch seller once remarked just as he was about to hound me “Oh you the guy who don’t wear f***in watches” !  Most amusing!

On a weekend away recently, we bought a bucket of sweets to keep in the car.  As we drove through the poor villages and saw the kids playing, we stopped and simply threw handfuls of sweets in the air for them.  Again, this is no answer to their problems but to see what a difference that made to those kids faces was life changing, it made their and our day!

If you feel strongly about helping the poor here, there are numerous funds and organisations set up across the city that you can donate to.  This is better in the long term than trying to help individuals, many of whom are con merchants.

Cheers
Malc

[H.Nick]

Never a black and white issue.

You may decide never to give; you might decide always to give, but not many of us would have the funds to support that decision.

Otherwise you just have to decide person by person, case by case, occasion by occasion.

I will not give money to the women carrying small children in London. Not only should a mother be able to obtain benefits there, but encouraging this particular form of emotional blackmail is just making more and more children suffer from traffic fumes etc.

But it is not like that here; there are many abandoned or abused women, many abandoned families.

Even in the busy places where the gangs are most likely to work some will be genuine.

The only place I just shut my eyes and ears and walk are when you get a whole crowd of beggars, eg outside some temples (Sai Baba temple close to where I live is an example). If I give even R5 to each and every person  then I've probably spent my own food budget for the day. Yet, to give to one or two is an impossible decision, and would only lead to hassle from a number of others.

[cyberhippie]

My take on the whole thing is this!!
Lacking full employment many take to the streets, to "earn a living" some of the beggers you will come across will work at times but when the work runs out, as it often does, they have to go back and work the streets and earn a their bread that way, since there is no social safety net in India. Some organise themselves into gangs, not just to milk the situation but to protect their patch, with a a kingpin overseeing the whole operation, these kingpins are not to be mistaken for pimps who misuse people in order to get rich!! These guys are welcomed by the the street folks as the protector of their patch and livlihood, (abject poverty, makes even begging lucrative and competitive)
Of course this being India there is a flip side to the whole story!! There are indeed organised criminals gangs who send people out to tout, sell and beg, raking in the profits and leaving the "workers" with very little at the end of the day!
The stories of maimed children and forced begging are also true but it would be hard to quantify how the numbers measure up against the truly needy in India, of which there are hundreds of thousands!! Charities do help and you'll often hear the words "give to charity not to beggers" this for me is simply a cop out, there are so many poor and needy in India, with no chance to better their situation, that with the best will in the world, charities could not and do not even scratch the surface because of the numbers involved, add to this the the corruption inherent in many of India's charities and you'll see that simply giving to charities at the exclusion of the people on the street isn't a complete answer either!!

So where does that leave the humble traveller??
Well for me giving to beggers should be a gut reaction rather than a sense of duty or trying to second guess the background of the man/woman/child you see in front of you. There really is no way to tell if the begger is in genuine need, work shy, misused by an unscrupulous "pimp" or simply someone down on their luck. For this reason I advise to give when YOU feel the need and when the money has left your hand, forget about it, the truth of the matter is your few pennies won't influence the situation for good or bad as the problems are just so massive, give or don't give it's completely upto the individual and whatever your choice nobody should condemm you for it!

Touts are to all intents an purposes "employed" it may not seem that way and thay can be annoying but they do serve a purpose and usually it's not a job they do gladly.
Although they can be a pain at times, they can help you find things like hotels rooms and shops you wouldn't otherwise find and the comission they earn is a pittance, and is usually paid by the business they bring you too not added to your bill!!

Rickshaw wallahs are wide boys and will fleece you in the blink of an eye, then tell they're friends!! However there are nearly always a few honest ones around, so if you think someone is taking the piss walk away and don't use his rickshaw even when he offers to lower his price tell him he's dish0onest and he's lost a fare then seek out a more honest driver!!

I hope that's given you some food for thought

[malkers]

There is another thing you could do with a beggar too.  Offer them a ridiculous amount of money say 500rs or something to collect all the litter up that you see around you at the time they are begging from you, or maybe think of something else you could offer them to do perhaps at your house or flat.  My friend offered to clothe and feed a teenage girl a couple of weeks ago just to come and do a bit of cleaning at her flat for 1 hour, she walked off!

9 out of 10 won't do it I'll bet ya!

It is your choice of course and I'd never make anyone feel bad about doing it or not doing it, Jen sometimes has a weakness and hands over a few rupees, I do occassionally for totally disabled folks if I really don't see a way they can work and I have been known to buy a few ice creams for kids.  Invade my space in the street or whilst I'm sat in the auto or taxi, not a chance matey!

An interesting debate this!  Take your point entirely about the charities CH but then I'd never give a cent unless I knew the ins and outs of somewhere as I do now with Shanthi!

Cheers
Malc

[cyberhippie]

Ask yourself the qustion Malc if someone offers you 50-75 rupees a day, to work your ass off, when you can make three times that on the street what are you gonna do???

I think there's way too much "work morality" wrapped up in the whole issue of begging, maybe if employer paid a living wage we'd see less work shy "beggers" personally I would stick with where the money is!!
Same as the the old chesnut of "oh he'll only drink the money" so what, if I lived on the streets I reckon I'd need a stiff drink of a night time

Not having a pop,. as I know your hearts in the right place just taking a different look at things, as is my wont!!

[malkers]

Ah but notice CH that I said to offer them a ridiculous amount like 500rs for an hour of litter picking so we're talking middle to upper class wages here, they still won't do it so its a safe gamble to try and thats more than they'd earn by begging for 10 hours!  Of course I'm not saying that everyone won't do it, perhaps I'll have a survey day on the streets of Bangalore one day and see how much I lose, that could be a great tv documentary  

[john.sw]

Of course, it is impossible to give to every beggar.

If I give to a beggar it is normally to someone to whom a local person has also given money.  I think the locals know who are the genuine beggars and who are in the “begging business”.  This doesn’t only apply in India – I do it in other countries too.

Touts I ignore, and  I negotiate a fare with taxi drivers before getting into their taxi, unless it is a metered service, like in Mumbai, when I insist they start the meter.  If they won't use the meter I get a different taxi.

[captmahajan]

touts I ignore.

beggars, no hard and fast rules, sometimes I give and sometimes I dont, and I try to give food and not cash.

as CH says, there is nothing hard and fast, and there is no way of knowing how genuine the beggar is.

the only thing I know is he/she is destitute enough to beg, and so, I try to give food when I do. at least the food will go directly into his stomach, part of the money may be passed on to god know who.

[digital drifter]

read this & contrast with the opinions posted on IM & TIT!


http://www.nytimes.c...r=1&oref=slogin

Quote

To no one’s surprise the suspicion often reflects reality, as restaurateurs will admit in candid moments. It might be an extra 30 cents for an espresso, or a $5 tithe tacked onto a bottle of wine. It may even mean the substitution of lower grade ingredients. But the practice of charging tourists more does exist and is committed daily, even hourly. If executed properly, the turista will be none the wiser.

What winds me up, is the way the reporter writes about it.  fecking admiringly.

I suggest, everyone take the same attitude when you get dumped out of your taxi at 2am in the morning in Bombay.