378 replies to this topic

[Suresh Hinduja]

Guess what this is? If, and thats a big if, anyone knows the answer, please wait to give the others a chance. Or PM me.

[jim]

I'm pretty sure that this is not an animal or a mineral, and further that it is edible....though I'm still rather frightened of it. :0

I think I have a pretty good guess, but let me ask this:  would you consume this in its entirety?  Or merely part of it?

--jim

[Suresh Hinduja]

Yeah, it is scary! No, they are not from a sabre toothed tiger or any animal.

The knobby top is pared and the tip is snipped slightly.

Size idea: about 1 1/2 " to 4 " long.

[Invest Wise]

My Wild thoothy guess......


Is this Bamboo shoot ( which just germninated)


 Hey.. Is there price for the correct Guess CEO.

Invest Wise

[Invest Wise]

Sorry I ment Prize not price.

[waaza]

H of P ?

[Monica Bhide]

Some kind of weird mushroom like thing.. this is a strange one.  

[Suresh Hinduja]

Invest wise,
It's not a bamboo shoot and maybe I should offer a bumper prize for any one who gets it.

Wazza,
What's a H of P ? That sounds even more mysterious to me.

Monica,
Not a  mushroom.

It is unlikely that a non Indian will get the right answer because this 'thing' is found(rarely) only in Home Indian cuisine, I've never seen it in a restaurant. Invest wise PMed me that it may be Arvi ( Colocassia) root but it's not.

[waaza]

you say they are vegetable matter, and to me they look like shoots of some kind, as it is not green (yet). And as its not a shroom, it must be green if above ground (or blanched). The shape suggests that the tips are geotropic, meaning they are trying to grow vertical, so the shoots are coming from the side or even underneath of the parent. The knobby end seems covered in very dark brown matter, suggesting very fertile ground or even boggy environment. My guess would be a shoot of a tree, say palm (H of P is heart of palm) or lotus shoots.
cheers
Waaza

[Suresh Hinduja]

you say they are vegetable matter, and to me they look like shoots of some kind, as it is not green (yet). And as its not a shroom, it must be green if above ground (or blanched). The shape suggests that the tips are geotropic, meaning they are trying to grow vertical, so the shoots are coming from the side or even underneath of the parent. The knobby end seems covered in very dark brown matter, suggesting very fertile ground or even boggy environment. My guess would be a shoot of a tree, say palm (H of P is heart of palm) or lotus shoots.
cheers
Waaza

Nix, nope, nahin, nyet...

[waaza]

that a definite maybe, then?
cheers
Waaza

[Gautam]

Amorphophallus spp., aka 'suran', sprouting.

Amorphophallus konjac also used in Japan to produce konnyaku, shirataki.

This latter might be a good value-added crop for sub-himalayan india, plus highlands of Karnataka and Kerala.  Shirataki is pretty expensive, is a good diet food, and will fill a import-substitution slot as more restaurants in India serve up japanese and Korean food. We are to become Suzuki's manufacturing base for certain types of cars; also more japanese investors in the future.

India ripe to produce specialty ethnic products, for various ethnic groups, as China is now doing. Why are we waiting to play catch-up? Our friends in Ratnagiri already are producing a range of surimi products for japanese market. Surimi---oden---konnyaku all go together; quite ahigh value niche.

Is there no social investor in india who will take note of this business opportunity?

[jim]

(My guess, laid to rest, was a hing rhizome  ??? ).  Heh.

A Suran sprout?  So!  

In Portland's Indian groceries I can buy frozen purple yam, but I remain sort of puzzled over the names/varieties I've read about.  Gautam, I know you have a strong background with plant physiology, could you spend a little time with me on the very 'basic basics' of yams in India's agricultures?  I have come across mentions of:  suran, ratalu, zimikand and elephant foot yam.  Are these all the same?  Or related?  I'm sure I can make reasonable substitutions with little trouble, but I'm also interested in an elementary rundown of the basic(s).  (I hope I'm not laboring where no labor is due.)

much appreciated,

--jim

[Suresh Hinduja]

Amorphophallus spp., aka 'suran', sprouting.

Amorphophallus konjac also used in Japan to produce konnyaku, shirataki.

This latter might be a good value-added crop for sub-himalayan india, plus highlands of Karnataka and Kerala.  Shirataki is pretty expensive, is a good diet food, and will fill a import-substitution slot as more restaurants in India serve up japanese and Korean food. We are to become Suzuki's manufacturing base for certain types of cars; also more japanese investors in the future.

India ripe to produce specialty ethnic products, for various ethnic groups, as China is now doing. Why are we waiting to play catch-up? Our friends in Ratnagiri already are producing a range of surimi products for japanese market. Surimi---oden---konnyaku all go together; quite ahigh value niche.

Is there no social investor in india who will take note of this business opportunity?

Expectedly, Gautam is right and on the spot.  

We call them Suran ka phool and they are available only in the premonsoon period. I have managed to procure them only 4 times in my culinary lifespan. This 5th time I espied them in Russell market, Bangalore and they were bound for a buyer in Chennai. With some difficulty I convinced the vendor to part with a kilo for Rs. 80.

They have a mushroom like texture with earthy overtones. You are wise to catch the Japanese connection and if you notice I have also used a Japanese dish to showcase them in the photograph.

Gautam, why does the tip have a sealed(?) 'dirt' canal?

I gave them the traditional bhunnao treatment:

[Invest Wise]

Dear Gautam,

Well done. You sure know a lot about it.

Claim your Gift

May be a bhunnao....

Ceo is an excellent  cook. I had the privilage once

[rummate]

Cheers to V.Gautam ! . What amazes me is  his reservoir of knowledge. Each time ,he hits the bull's eye. Maybe its time for him to publish some books for us lesser mortals!

[Chef Raj]

Guess what this is? If, and thats a big if, anyone knows the answer, please wait to give the others a chance. Or PM me.

After seeing this picture and Gautam ji's reply I have been looking for it in Delhi markets unsuccessfully and only one sabziwalla knows about them.  Maybe one day I'll be lucky.
Thank you all for the privelege of suran ka phool.

[Gautam]

Dear Friends,

suran ka phool should not be difficult to produce on a regular basis. the technique would be similar to that used to produce endive from chicory roots, but even simpler. Suran corms are available year round, rather cheaply, especially in Bengal. Put them in an aeroponic chamber, big word for an electronic humidifier, or use coconut coir waste used as greenhouse growing medium, and available cheaply in india. With adequate moisture control and ambient temperatures, the darn thing should sprout, if not a touch of Indole-Butyric Acid should help matters, and there you have it.

Why so much fuss and bother? a small cottage industry awaits someone with enterprise and organizational skills. I had not known that this stage was prized in South Indian markets. It really is very easy to produce. if someone wants to try their hand at it, i shall be more than happy to provide step by step guidance.

[Gautam]

Dear Friends,

Thank you for your kind words. Actually I cheated: CEO told me the answer--NOT; but really, as a botanist and plant physiologist, plants are my obsession, so perhaps it is not really fair to just have plant based guess-what questions?

Jim, I shall post a brief, rough guide to Indian 'yam' like things in a bit.

Now for a bitter-sweet story about suran/amorphophallus sprouts. I had not realized that they were so dear in Bangalore, because where i come from in Bengal, they are poor people's food. It would be interesting if some entrepreneur could use this differential to add value to a common field green, and help rural labor earnmore.

In Bengal and Bangladesh, the advent of the rains sees the plentiful sprouting of a host of Araceae, this family, and especially Amorphophallus. Two kinds are commonly recognized, besides the cultivated sorts. the first wild one is an evil bottle green splotched lighter green, the second a light sea green splotched with white and green. Of course, I am talking about one step further along the life cycle than the photograph shown. The stage I am referring to is when the stem bearing the fully developed, yet unfurled leaves rises up out of the ground. By that time, both stem and the leaf crown have turned green. This is the stage when they are harvested in Bengal, presumably because they are easier to spot, standing tall amidst the weeds. The leaves are discarded, and only the stalk used. The underground corm will send up smaller stalks from side buds, so this harvest is non-destructive. At any rate, these wild suran were a weed in the fields and ditches of my village.

The stalk needs to be sliced thinly, then blanched in boiling water. Even the less acrid light green kind [the evil bottle green type is left strictly alone] is quite rich in irritants, especially raphides, microscopic, needle-like crystals of organic acids that are the principal irritants of the Arum family, injuring hand and throat alike.

We were quite poor, and my foster mother was a very delicate lady whose health was extremely fragile, having suffered a near-fatal encounter with tuberculosis. Yet knowing my fondness for this vegetable, she would collect a large bunch, every few days in season, and painstakingly slice them on the wicked Bengali curved knife called the bonti. I can still remember her hands red, raw and inflamed on contact with this terrible vegetable! However, I was too young to associate cause and effect then, but now I can never seem to forgive myself .

Well after the stalk was sliced and blanched, it was lightly stir fried/steamed in a tarka of mustard seeds, jaggery, and finished off with grated coconut. Cooked with a delicate touch and without losing its crispness, this simple dish is a delight known only in the cuisine of rural Bengal, but rarely seen in urban markets.



‘yams’

Dioscorea alata -- true ‘yam’, climber, glossy leaves, aerial bulbils present. Underground  tuber large. Africa has many more important and delicious species of Dioscorea (rotundata, guineensis etc.). China and Japan have fewer edible (as opposed to pharmaceutical) Dioscorea species, the cinnamon yam or nagaimo being one of the most important. Aerial bulbils and underground part eaten,  especially the latter. A staple (or used to be a staple until tapioca hit the scene) in equatorial west Africa {Nigeria, Ghana, Ivory Coast etc.}

Colocasia esculenta –taro, arbi  Member of the Arum family (like skunk cabbage); large shield shaped leaves, preferring a moist, or even flooded habitat [Hawaii has evolved famous, traditional varieties cultivated in flooded fields, made into the famous/infamous poi]. In India, leaves, stem and corms eaten.

Xanthosoma spp. : an African counterpart of Colocasia, nutritious leaves, underground corms.

Alocasia spp. : an Asian, Polynesian, Australian group of species specializing in life in shaded environments. The thick lower part of the stem eaten.

Cyrtosperma spp. :  similar to Alocasia, important survival food in certain Polynesian islands (epecially when hit by hurricanes).

Amorphophallus spp. large underground corm, common name in Mumbai area is suran; Ammini also confirms [in 'recipe' thread] that this is the elephant foot yam. I am sorry that i cannot correctly identify the trade names and line them up with the appropriate botanical binomial nomenclature.

Ipomea batatas – true sweet potato, originating in S. America (?), orange-fleshed types often called yams in US. Asian and Indian types are often purple skinned and white fleshed. Roots and leaves eaten.

Manihot esculenta/cassava spp.—another South American underground starchy root called cassava, tapioca, yucca by various ethnic groups. Both leaves and ‘roots’ important foods worldwide in the tropics, the starch important beyond the tropics.


Please let me know how i can improve the above list to make it clearer and more useful to this forum.

[jim]

‘yams’

Gautam, *thanks* for taking the time to post such a detailed overview!    Gives me a better sense of Lord Yam's Underworld for sure.    

For those with access to fresh suran, in addition, I have a very mundane request.  A photo of the whole vegetable?  I've never seen a whole suran in person--and I suppose it sounds strange, but I'd like to know what the fresh look like. Google image searches haven't proved fruitful (for suran, elephant foot yam, zimikand and variant transliterations).  Perhaps a GI member could be an internet pioneer in adding a suran image to the cyber archive?

--jim