Jump to content


Photo

Marathi moggu


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 jim

jim

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 373 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 26 June 2005 - 05:59 AM

A friend recently gifted me with a bagful of this spice.  As I understand it's a caper bud, just younger and dried.  Any masalas this would work in?  Dishes?  

--jim

#2 ravum

ravum

    Frequent Flyer

  • Super Administrators
  • PipPip
  • 103 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Chennai

Posted 27 June 2005 - 04:44 AM

This dagad phool aka kalpasi aka marathi moggu.Used in chettinad cuisine.

Chettinadu masala Here

I saw the chef making this on TV and immediately hunted down the recipe.Its wonderful.This does make more masala than you need for this dish but you can freeze the rest (will spoil becoz of coconut)

#3 jim

jim

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 373 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 June 2005 - 06:25 AM

Thanks for the link, Ravum!  I did a little more googling, and there's definitely a wide variety of info on translating this spice.  I think in Hindi this might also be called badi laung.  Will give the Chettinad masala a go round. :)  

--jim

#4 Gautam

Gautam

    Guru Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 June 2005 - 10:11 AM

Jim,
I hope you (and others) can clarify my confusion about marathi moggu. You write that it is the dried bud of a caperand Ravum replies that it is the same as dagad phool,and then you ask if it is 'badi laung'.

Okay, here goes: a fairly involved discussion on another forum seemed to conclude that dagad phool was a type of lichen, possibly collected in central India, used in some Maharashtrian spice mixes.

Re:capers, there  are Indian capers especially in theRajasthan desert. The genus name is Capparis, the speciesname escapes  me at themoment, but the common name in the dialect of Sikar district is 'phog', and this name is widespread in Marwar [Churu, Pali & Sikar districts of Rajasthan]. I think in Haryana, this same phog is also known as 'teent', and under that name is found as the seedy berries in Punjabi-style  Pachranga pickles.

I had not known that Indian caper plant buds were also utilized as spices, or as buds, and would be very excited to learn more of this particular use. If your bag of moggu is entire, it would be very simple to determine if it is a caper bud or a lichen. A small sample, like 1 gram, to  a university plant anatomy laboratory, would solve this issue.

#5 Suresh Hinduja

Suresh Hinduja

    Suresh Hinduja

  • Super Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangalore - INDIA
  • Interests:food innovation
    golf
    single malt
    author
    consulting chef

Posted 27 June 2005 - 10:48 AM

This is what I think is marathi moggul-
Posted Image

I'll post a picture of Dagad phool later.

I fry by the heat of my pans
http://www.gourmetindia.com

My Photos

chicken 2014
Album: My Pixels
474 images
80 comments


#6 Gautam

Gautam

    Guru Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 June 2005 - 11:58 AM

Thanks, Suresh,

That picture establishes moggu to be a bud [of a flowering plant] and not a lichen.

In the Chettinad masala recipecited above, we find:

"gently shallow .roast ....... kalpasi bark, star anise seeds, ....

Grind the shallow roasted spices to a fine paste. The Chettinadu masala is ready."

Here, Kalpasi bark is being referred to.

Ravum had equated Moggu with Kalpasi with dagad phool.

Let us assume that Moggu is not identical with dagad phool.

Then, the question remains, is Kalpasi bark got from the same plant that provides the Moggu bud?

#7 jim

jim

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 373 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 27 June 2005 - 10:25 PM

Suresh's photo matches the same spice I have.  

Here's a news article on the lichen.

Of course, you know what I'd be interested in next, don't you?  Pictorial documentation of our friend kalpasi!  I think that might look quite nice in our gallery, next to the suran.   :)

--jim

#8 Suresh Hinduja

Suresh Hinduja

    Suresh Hinduja

  • Super Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangalore - INDIA
  • Interests:food innovation
    golf
    single malt
    author
    consulting chef

Posted 29 June 2005 - 10:32 PM

The last time I saw stone flower/dagad phool/kalpasi was in the hills of Ooty. It was embedded on a rock and was gray coloured. I have some stock at home but my logistics manager - Miss Rathna, has been unable to reconcile the coordinates.

As soon as it is unearthed I shall post the pic.

I fry by the heat of my pans
http://www.gourmetindia.com

My Photos

chicken 2014
Album: My Pixels
474 images
80 comments


#9 Suresh Hinduja

Suresh Hinduja

    Suresh Hinduja

  • Super Administrators
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,231 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bangalore - INDIA
  • Interests:food innovation
    golf
    single malt
    author
    consulting chef

Posted 17 July 2005 - 09:14 PM

Dagad Phool/Stone Flower/Patthar phool
aka Parmelia Perlata

Posted Image

I fry by the heat of my pans
http://www.gourmetindia.com

My Photos

chicken 2014
Album: My Pixels
474 images
80 comments


#10 Gautam

Gautam

    Guru Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 18 July 2005 - 08:03 AM

Suresh,

That image of dagad phool unequivocally shows it to be a lichen.

I don't know about the magnification used, but roughly speaking, a thumbnail sized piece of lichen could take decades to reach that size. This is to emphasize how slowly they grow;  plus, they are very sensitive to air pollution.

Air pollution is growing in India; I have pictures from the journal  Science showing upper atmosphere images of a solid brown over the subcontinent!  Both China and the subcontinent are paying a yield penalty in their agriculture, even as they work hard to improve gross yield and total productivity [the efficiency with agricultural inputs are used]!

Anyway, slow-growing lichens, susceptible to air pollution also face the threat of increasing demand for commercial uses. Some Himalayan lichens are used for making body dyes similar to mehndi. Now, as dagad phool gets popularised and caught up in the worldwide demand for Indian food, there is danger of  depleting it on its native growing areas.

I had never heard of dagad phool until this year, and now I am curious to give it a try. Publicity here as a certain deleterios effect, as many begin to learn of exotic spices and want to try them out. Just a gloomy-gus point of view!

#11 jim

jim

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 373 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 July 2005 - 01:30 AM

I had never heard of dagad phool until this year, and now I am curious to give it a try. Publicity here as a certain deleterios effect, as many begin to learn of exotic spices and want to try them out. Just a gloomy-gus point of view!


Good point about degrading the resource, something for us to consider.

--

There are thousands of species of lichen.  I just peeked in 'The Oxford Companion to Food' and the author notes that lichens are also consumed in Iceland, Africa, Japan, China and by the Tatars and the Lapps.  I will leave it to other members ;) to provide tasting notes.

--jim

#12 Nichiro

Nichiro
  • Validating
  • 29 posts

Posted 23 July 2007 - 09:37 AM

Dagad Phool, Patthar ka phool which is a lichen is a very tricky spice.
If you are not careful in your usage, it turns the food very bitter....and that is a bitter experience I had.
I normally make my own masala powders .Many years back, I , by mistake , under estimated the power of Dagad phool. I added twice or thrice the mentioned amount and my powder started giving a funny bitterish taste to the curries I made.

I was not able to pin point the problem immediately.
But I had to throw away masala powder.

Next week I again went and bought the ingredients and on second thought, I tasted the Dagad Phool. Lo behold...!!
It was giving a bitterish taste but had a musky fine aroma.
Then I asked the shop keeper and he confirmed that we should use this spice in moderation and only in specified amounts.
Since then on, I have had no problem .

But I still want to caution you guys.
In wet weather, when the humidity is high or in sea side regions, Dagad phool seems to be a culprit in spoiling Garam Masala due to its Fungus component.
Can any learned friend substantiate my findings with some more inputs?
I do not store the spice powder which has Dagad phool in it for more than a month or two at the most.

But let me assure you, it really changes the way food smells....It is heady in a subtle way.

Nichiro
  • Termz likes this

#13 Nichiro

Nichiro
  • Validating
  • 29 posts

Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:52 AM

This dagad phool aka kalpasi aka marathi moggu.Used in chettinad cuisine.

Chettinadu masala Here

I saw the chef making this on TV and immediately hunted down the recipe.Its wonderful.This does make more masala than you need for this dish but you can freeze the rest (will spoil becoz of coconut)

Ravum,

Dagad phool is not Maretti Moggu.